8 ms·
Ballpark construction costs: Surface parking $3,000 per space Multistory $20,000 per space Underground $30,000 per space
by slyall 8y ago
Ballpark construction costs:
Surface parking $3,000 per space
Multistory $20,000 per space
Underground $30,000 per space
- sschueller 8y agoDon't let them decide on cost. It's the cities job to put regulations in place to require underground parking when building certain structures. It is also their job to calculate in the additional toll on traffic as well as public transport in order to plan future expansion.
- slyall 8y agoSo you are saying that the town (8000 people) should have required the bank to put in 200 "additional" underground parking spaces? A town with a regulation like that won't spend much time planning future expansion.
- Arnt 8y agoWe have that kind of regulation where I live, including a requirement for off-street parking per apartments that pushes builders strongly towards underground parking. Now people complain about the rents, because of course the added construction cost ends up increasing the rent, and about a lack of new affordable housing. You see the same thing in the original story — some popular restaurant decided not to expand because of the cost of parking. Mandating expensive extras sucks, one way or another.
- varjag 8y agoThat's not extras, that's paying for the externalities you otherwise incur upon others.
- Arnt 8y agoAbout half the residents in such apartments have no car.
- varjag 8y agoInteresting, because here nearly everyone wealthy enough to buy a central, newly commissioned apartment (ballpark of million dollars) does own a car.
- TomMarius 8y agoNot in Europe. Cars aren't really practical anywhere near city centres.
- varjag 8y agoI am in Norway, not even in the capital.
- TomMarius 8y agoOwning a car in city such as Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt, Prague, Brno... is significant pain, and it costs you a lot to even keep that car on the street (if you can find a place - you can't). As a result, people in many historical cities with compact greater city centres (where there simply is not enough land to even theoretically accommodate 1 car per household) simply don't own a car, because why. Probably more than half of the people living in the building where I do don't have a car, many of my coworkers don't...
- varjag 8y agoAll of the European cities I've been to are full of parked vehicles. Someone got to own all them. Anyway we were talking about parking norms for newly commissioned buildings, and "you can't find parking place on the street" isn't really an argument against it.
- TomMarius 8y agoWe are not saying that there are no cars. We are saying that a significant portion of the people in these cities don't have a car. You saw cars of the other half. I'm saying that it's weird to require parking spaces in cities where there is a problem with housing prices when a lot of people don't have a car and thus prove that it's possible. It even completely goes agains the goal of reducing cars in cities.
- TomMarius 8y agoWhat externalities? I pay carbon tax, ecological tax, consumption tax on fuel, income tax, VAT, municipal tax, capital gains tax, dividend tax, property tax, property transfer tax, and many other taxes - solely because the system says "you pay and we will maintain the infrastructure, clean the environment etc". There are no unexpected externalities that I would incur on anyone and most definitely no externalities that I did not pay my fair share for, since I pay much more in taxes than most people do (meaning larger percentage of my income as well as in absolute units). Now the government is trying to pull out of this social contract but isn't giving any of the tax money back.
- varjag 8y agoIf you need the parking spot, that's not an "extra", period. Your car has to go somewhere, either congesting the scarce street/sidewalk space, or to your private parking spot.
- TomMarius 8y agoAnd I'm paying taxes because the government has promised to solve the infrastructure problem for me - and that definitely includes parking, not only at home, but also at all possible destinations. What's the point of a government-ran infrastructure otherwise? I could've built my own parking space by myself without any laws if I needed it, the point of having a government monopoly in this business is that we have roads and parking spaces that everyone can use. If I'm forced to pay for something then I should be able to use it. I shouldn't be told to suck it just because I came too late.
- varjag 8y agoBecause physical space of the public property is constrained by the laws of the Universe with blatant disregard for our libertarian ideals.
- TomMarius 8y agoThey took our money to build road infrastructure - they should provide the infrastructure or return the money, instead now they demand citizens should do their job and they don't even offer any money back, instead taxes are rising. I don't care much about any constraints the government (not citizens) is facing, if it's impossible they shouldn't have promised it to the voters (and get voted because of it) and definitely shouldn't have taken money for that purpose (from state budget). Yeah, I know, there is not infinite space on Earth. That doesn't mean the government has any right to shift their responsibilities to the citizens and keep demanding money for the service they've ceased to provide.
- CalRobert 8y agoForcing that spot to be parking instead of a home means we're all paying for the externalities your car imposes. It would have been a home for humans but your government insisted it be a home for cars instead. Where I live there's no free parking. People who own cars use the private car park around the corner. It works fine.
- varjag 8y agoSo they pay for garage around the corner instead of the garage in the basement. Good for them!
- CalRobert 8y agoYeah exactly. And I don't pay for a spot I don't need (I don't have a car). We have gocar which is handy for people who need a car for the odd day trip or Ikea run, but not on a daily basis.
- varjag 8y agoThat parking garage around the corner still has some degree of vacancy and still occupies the estate that "could been home for humans", so in this way it's no difference.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- CalRobert 8y agoIt's very different, because now if I say "hey, I could get a better return on that land than the company that runs the garage" I can * buy the land. * turn it in to homes. It also means that as the area grows and more people come here and wish to park and live here, they can price according to the market, meaning we can determine if more people want to live on that land or park on it. Also, for me at least the most expensive part of car ownership would be paying for parking. If I had a space with my flat, I'd probably own a car because it's a sunk cost (I would be bitter about it though). As it stands now I have the choice of not paying for a parking space, and I prefer not to.
- CalRobert 8y agoWhat basis, exactly, should they decide on? For a bank of all places they will know what an absurd waste an underground parking garage is. Here's an analysis showing how absurdly expensive it is to make build built little houses for cars that are empty most of the time any time we want to do anything. https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/420062 https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bps/article/420062
- xte 8y agoUnderground parking may pose many problems for instance if you are in a flood-frequent area, if the ground is not so easy to modify etc. Sometimes maybe an option but not always.
- kachurovskiy 8y agoNot only that, it can run up to $500 or more per underground parking spot in maintenance per year for electricity, physical space and entrance maintenance, fire safety systems and obligatory insurances. Additionally, you might not be allowed to store anything except a car in your space and not allowed to perform any activities there except driving in or out (no small car repairs!). What if you're alone with a baby and shopping bags and there's no elevator? Compare this to an outside parking space: none of that applies. I'd love to hide all the cars away from the street but I didn't realize all these differences until I got myself an underground spot.