4 ms·

> Unsurprising consistent behavior is a value. Looking at the last 30 years of software development, it's pretty clear that users don't care very much.

by s17n 8y ago

ridiculous_fish 8y ago
They do care. Try writing a DOS or Blackberry-style app today and see what happens. Software today has internalized the idioms so much that its developers don't even realize it. "My app is a snowflake and needs a custom design language and UI." You're vim or Photoshop or AutoCAD or Excel: you're targeting dedicated users who are prepared to invest in learning a specialized UI. Fair enough. But if you're not one of these highly professional apps, then custom control just makes the app less predictable, harder to use, and often inaccessible for users with disabilities. Not good.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >They do care. Try writing a DOS or Blackberry-style app today and see what happens. Nothing much. Some of the most downloaded and bought apps (desktop and mobile) have horrible custom UIs. As long as the app has the crucial functionality, few care. And I'm talking for average users. As for pros? Well, vim and Emacs are DOS style apps (well, in that they use curses and totally un-native GUI paradigms), and they're still strong. UI concerns of that level only matter when apps otherwise have marginal utility and small other differences with competitors.
  - npunt 8y ago
    Sure but lets not forget the single most successful consumer product in history (iPhone) owes much of its success to it's clean, consistent UX across a suite of built-in apps. More people probably use those than downloaded apps.
    - oblio 8y ago
      Yet the most popular OS is Android...
- kangoo1707 8y ago
  Website (+responsive mobile sites) have been using custom UIs for years and no one bats an eye A framework for mobile uses custom UIs and everyone loses their minds?
  - npunt 8y ago
    1. People regularly complain about inconsistent web UI. 2. Even web apps often have similar idioms and patterns to their UI that they've settled on. It's their own patterns that are different from desktop OS, it's basically another category. 3. Most web apps are used on desktop, not mobile. On mobile, it's mostly native apps that are used. So they're not substitutes.
    - oblio 8y ago
      Many "native apps" are just "hidden" web apps, users just don't know it.
      - maccard 8y ago
        Such as?
        oblio 8y ago
        Every Cordova (https://cordova.apache.org/ https://cordova.apache.org/ -> search for showcase) or PhoneGap (https://phonegap.com/app/ https://phonegap.com/app/) app.
    - pennaMan 8y ago
      > Most web apps are used on desktop, not mobile. On mobile, it's mostly native apps that are used. So they're not substitutes. This needs some citation
  - apetrovic 8y ago
    Honestly, I expect from a web page to be shitty. I'm surprised when some web page aren't slow, unresponsive, or doesn't distract me with million designer quirks. My expectations are different with mobile apps. If I'm spending some time to find the app on the app store (and maybe pay for it) and giving the app a place and a storage on my phone, I'm expecting from the app to be polished and give me pleasant experience.

> Unsurprising consistent behavior is a value. Looking at the last 30 years of software development, it's pretty clear that users don't care very much.

by s17n 8y ago

> Unsurprising consistent behavior is a value. Looking at the last 30 years of software development, it's pretty clear that users don't care very much.

ridiculous_fish 8y ago

They do care. Try writing a DOS or Blackberry-style app today and see what happens. Software today has internalized the idioms so much that its developers don't even realize it. "My app is a snowflake and needs a custom design language and UI." You're vim or Photoshop or AutoCAD or Excel: you're targeting dedicated users who are prepared to invest in learning a specialized UI. Fair enough. But if you're not one of these highly professional apps, then custom control just makes the app less predictable, harder to use, and often inaccessible for users with disabilities. Not good.

coldtea 8y ago
>They do care. Try writing a DOS or Blackberry-style app today and see what happens. Nothing much. Some of the most downloaded and bought apps (desktop and mobile) have horrible custom UIs. As long as the app has the crucial functionality, few care. And I'm talking for average users. As for pros? Well, vim and Emacs are DOS style apps (well, in that they use curses and totally un-native GUI paradigms), and they're still strong. UI concerns of that level only matter when apps otherwise have marginal utility and small other differences with competitors.
- npunt 8y ago
  Sure but lets not forget the single most successful consumer product in history (iPhone) owes much of its success to it's clean, consistent UX across a suite of built-in apps. More people probably use those than downloaded apps.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Yet the most popular OS is Android...
kangoo1707 8y ago
Website (+responsive mobile sites) have been using custom UIs for years and no one bats an eye A framework for mobile uses custom UIs and everyone loses their minds?
- npunt 8y ago
  1. People regularly complain about inconsistent web UI. 2. Even web apps often have similar idioms and patterns to their UI that they've settled on. It's their own patterns that are different from desktop OS, it's basically another category. 3. Most web apps are used on desktop, not mobile. On mobile, it's mostly native apps that are used. So they're not substitutes.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Many "native apps" are just "hidden" web apps, users just don't know it.
    - maccard 8y ago
      Such as?
      - oblio 8y ago
        Every Cordova (https://cordova.apache.org/ https://cordova.apache.org/ -> search for showcase) or PhoneGap (https://phonegap.com/app/ https://phonegap.com/app/) app.
  - pennaMan 8y ago
    > Most web apps are used on desktop, not mobile. On mobile, it's mostly native apps that are used. So they're not substitutes. This needs some citation
- apetrovic 8y ago
  Honestly, I expect from a web page to be shitty. I'm surprised when some web page aren't slow, unresponsive, or doesn't distract me with million designer quirks. My expectations are different with mobile apps. If I'm spending some time to find the app on the app store (and maybe pay for it) and giving the app a place and a storage on my phone, I'm expecting from the app to be polished and give me pleasant experience.