7 ms·

The epic demise of Realtime Worlds, maker of Crackdown & APB

21 points by paylesworth 16y ago

paylesworth 16y ago
The story will resonate with anyone who is familiar with "The Mythical Man-Month", but what I particularly interesting about this story is the stark contrast between the company's initial success with Crackdown and then how quickly it screwed it all up with APB.
- ryanc 16y ago
  Beware of the dreaded Second System Effect?
wccrawford 16y ago
I think they're still confused. They think the 'smaller team' was what made Crackdown better, and in reality was 'better team'. Size wasn't relevant, only the people were. They admit later they had people who enjoyed making a great game, and others who relished the politics. The latter is what destroyed them.
- hga 16y ago
  "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representative who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions." (http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail408.html#Iron http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail40...)
Tycho 16y ago
Moral of this story would be: do not rush to launch with a minimal viable product if you're working on an MMO (or probably any console game).
- kevingadd 16y ago
  To be clear, you're saying to avoid rushing to your Launch (marketing, press, boxes on shelves, etc), right, not to avoid showing it to customers?
  - Tycho 16y ago
    Well that's what Realtime Worlds did, they showed the game, it got a lot of buzz, so they pushed its release date forward (or refrained from delaying to fix the bugs), released it, but it flopped. So yes it's the Launch bit they screwed up. At first it struck me as contrary to the 'just get your version 1.0 out there no matter how embarrassing it is' wisdom, but I suppose on reflection it's not really.
    - Ogre 16y ago
      There's a saying in MMOs, "You can't patch first impressions". It is kind of contrary to "just get it out there", but maybe not if you consider press coverage rather than shipping "getting it out there".
- citricsquid 16y ago
  The real moral is not to release a shitty product. APB was a terrible product, marketing and all the other stuff aside, it just plain sucked.
- ryanc 16y ago
  APB was a good game with a lot of potential but it was plagued by two issues. The first being a total lack of variety in regard to story content and the second being that the matchmaking system was horrible. When playing that game I was constantly paired up against people who were a much higher level effectively doing the same mission I had done a bunch of times already.
Luyt 16y ago
Related: Luke Halliwell's Weblog, http://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/ http://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/ (Found via: Ex-Realtime Worlds Employee Examines APB Fiasco, http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103563-Ex-Realtime-Worlds-Employee-Examines-APB-Fiasco http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103563-Ex-Realtime... )
all 16y ago
Off-topic but important to note: Dundee is not a "small Scottish town" but is a medium-sized city in the UK, the fourth-largest in Scotland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee

21 points by paylesworth 16y ago

The story will resonate with anyone who is familiar with "The Mythical Man-Month", but what I particularly interesting about this story is the stark contrast between the company's initial success with Crackdown and then how quickly it screwed it all up with APB.

ryanc 16y ago
Beware of the dreaded Second System Effect?

wccrawford 16y ago

I think they're still confused. They think the 'smaller team' was what made Crackdown better, and in reality was 'better team'. Size wasn't relevant, only the people were. They admit later they had people who enjoyed making a great game, and others who relished the politics. The latter is what destroyed them.

hga 16y ago
"Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representative who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions." (http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail408.html#Iron http://www.jerrypournelle.com/archives2/archives2mail/mail40...)

Tycho 16y ago

Moral of this story would be: do not rush to launch with a minimal viable product if you're working on an MMO (or probably any console game).

kevingadd 16y ago
To be clear, you're saying to avoid rushing to your Launch (marketing, press, boxes on shelves, etc), right, not to avoid showing it to customers?
- Tycho 16y ago
  Well that's what Realtime Worlds did, they showed the game, it got a lot of buzz, so they pushed its release date forward (or refrained from delaying to fix the bugs), released it, but it flopped. So yes it's the Launch bit they screwed up. At first it struck me as contrary to the 'just get your version 1.0 out there no matter how embarrassing it is' wisdom, but I suppose on reflection it's not really.
  - Ogre 16y ago
    There's a saying in MMOs, "You can't patch first impressions". It is kind of contrary to "just get it out there", but maybe not if you consider press coverage rather than shipping "getting it out there".
citricsquid 16y ago
The real moral is not to release a shitty product. APB was a terrible product, marketing and all the other stuff aside, it just plain sucked.
ryanc 16y ago
APB was a good game with a lot of potential but it was plagued by two issues. The first being a total lack of variety in regard to story content and the second being that the matchmaking system was horrible. When playing that game I was constantly paired up against people who were a much higher level effectively doing the same mission I had done a bunch of times already.

Luyt 16y ago

Related: Luke Halliwell's Weblog, http://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/ http://lukehalliwell.wordpress.com/ (Found via: Ex-Realtime Worlds Employee Examines APB Fiasco, http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103563-Ex-Realtime-Worlds-Employee-Examines-APB-Fiasco http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103563-Ex-Realtime... )

all 16y ago

Off-topic but important to note: Dundee is not a "small Scottish town" but is a medium-sized city in the UK, the fourth-largest in Scotland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dundee