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My (I would consider) fairly deranged father was astounded that repeated beatings, threats to kill or abandon me, encouragements to commit suicide etc. caused 1

My (I would consider) fairly deranged father was astounded that repeated beatings, threats to kill or abandon me, encouragements to commit suicide etc. caused 12 year old me to have anxiety and develop odd social behaviors and diagnosed me with having a demon. He brought someone from his church (who later went to jail for pedophilia) to examine me for demons, and took my instant dislike of the guy as more evidence for them. My friend who immigrated from India at a young age was astounded that people believe in these things in America when I told him the story. I suppose he associated it only with less educated / developed parts of the world.

gumby 8y ago
> I suppose he associated it only with less educated / developed parts of the world. Anyone who's been through the one of the US public education systems can presumably concur with that assumption.
- rincebrain 8y ago
  While I agree the public school system in the US has a great many flaws, there are plenty of well-educated people who hold irrational beliefs. Consider the frequent use of various vitamins and supplements with mixed or outright negative research backing them for some conditions. (I am not attempting to start a debate over whether various supplements are beneficial for some or all people with various health problems, merely observing that it's a contentious area of research while a great many people take one side as correct.)
  - gumby 8y ago
    > there are plenty of well-educated people who hold irrational beliefs. I was quite surprised to find out when I was at MIT that a surprisingly high percentage of graduate students studying cosmology / astrophysics were fundamentalist christians. Given my naive upbringing (I'd never previously met any devout people) I was surprised to meet any religious people at MIT at all; inexplicably I was somehow smart enough not to investigate as I am sure I would have come off as impolite and obnoxious in the process, which would be unfair and mean. (I am sure I have plenty of firmly held irrational beliefs too but of course I can't identify most of them)
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Eh, the public school system doesn't generally teach (any) of the traits that OP's father had/have.
  - gumby 8y ago
    It's the other way around: kids need to learn, among the bare minimum, critical reasoning skills and basic epistemology. OP's father and his coreligionist certainly lacked those fundamentals, which is what surprised the immigrant. What a horrible way to treat a kid BTW. Sounds like the poor OP's father might have had some other, perhaps biological, issues. I'm glad OP survived!
smackay 8y ago
There is some underlying reason for this however. The Economist had an article (can't remember when) about children being accused of being possessed by demons in Africa and either thrown out of the family or village and sometimes being killed. On examination of these incidents by researchers, it was thought that the likely reason was economics and that the parents simply could not feed all the children they had and were dramatically forced to reduce their number. The incantation of evil spirits was simply the rationalisation the parents made to justify their actions. On two occasions I have seen something similar in the USA. First was in the airport at Atlanta where a early teen girl was having difficulties dealing with the noise and stress of airplane travel. The two women she was with were having an equally hard time dealing with her and were trying to persuade her that the reason she was behaving badly was because The Devil was making her do it. The second occasion was again with an early teen boy but this time at the top of Hart's Pass on the Pacific Crest Trail in the north Cascades. The kid clearly did not want to be there and again the women in charge were dealing with the situation by accusing him of being possessed. In both cases the kids were stressed out enough to be on the verge of hysteria and the protestations of the adults were only making it worse. It seemed pretty obvious to me at the time that the solution was simply to get everyone to calm down. Doubly so, since becoming a parent I discovered that stress and anxiety are extremely contagious. So the appeal of demons, for me, is simply a coping mechanism by parents to deal with children they cannot cope with or understand, albeit a a pretty drastic one.
- IIAOPSW 8y ago
  I wonder if in many cases we use a mental disorder diagnosis as a secular substitute. Replace demons with ADD/ASD and witch doctor with child psychologist.
- hnuser355 8y ago
  Frankly I don’t understand how people with access to the rituals, writings, scripture etc of such a complex religion end up with a worldview of “Thing I like - God. Thing I don’t like - devil”. A typical toddler or infant will probably arrive at a similar morality unaided by such powerful structures I would think.
- creep 8y ago
craftyguy 8y ago
> I suppose he associated it only with less educated / developed parts of the world. And he's not wrong.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

gumby 8y ago

> I suppose he associated it only with less educated / developed parts of the world. Anyone who's been through the one of the US public education systems can presumably concur with that assumption.

rincebrain 8y ago
While I agree the public school system in the US has a great many flaws, there are plenty of well-educated people who hold irrational beliefs. Consider the frequent use of various vitamins and supplements with mixed or outright negative research backing them for some conditions. (I am not attempting to start a debate over whether various supplements are beneficial for some or all people with various health problems, merely observing that it's a contentious area of research while a great many people take one side as correct.)
- gumby 8y ago
  > there are plenty of well-educated people who hold irrational beliefs. I was quite surprised to find out when I was at MIT that a surprisingly high percentage of graduate students studying cosmology / astrophysics were fundamentalist christians. Given my naive upbringing (I'd never previously met any devout people) I was surprised to meet any religious people at MIT at all; inexplicably I was somehow smart enough not to investigate as I am sure I would have come off as impolite and obnoxious in the process, which would be unfair and mean. (I am sure I have plenty of firmly held irrational beliefs too but of course I can't identify most of them)
craftyguy 8y ago
Eh, the public school system doesn't generally teach (any) of the traits that OP's father had/have.
- gumby 8y ago
  It's the other way around: kids need to learn, among the bare minimum, critical reasoning skills and basic epistemology. OP's father and his coreligionist certainly lacked those fundamentals, which is what surprised the immigrant. What a horrible way to treat a kid BTW. Sounds like the poor OP's father might have had some other, perhaps biological, issues. I'm glad OP survived!

smackay 8y ago

There is some underlying reason for this however. The Economist had an article (can't remember when) about children being accused of being possessed by demons in Africa and either thrown out of the family or village and sometimes being killed. On examination of these incidents by researchers, it was thought that the likely reason was economics and that the parents simply could not feed all the children they had and were dramatically forced to reduce their number. The incantation of evil spirits was simply the rationalisation the parents made to justify their actions. On two occasions I have seen something similar in the USA. First was in the airport at Atlanta where a early teen girl was having difficulties dealing with the noise and stress of airplane travel. The two women she was with were having an equally hard time dealing with her and were trying to persuade her that the reason she was behaving badly was because The Devil was making her do it. The second occasion was again with an early teen boy but this time at the top of Hart's Pass on the Pacific Crest Trail in the north Cascades. The kid clearly did not want to be there and again the women in charge were dealing with the situation by accusing him of being possessed. In both cases the kids were stressed out enough to be on the verge of hysteria and the protestations of the adults were only making it worse. It seemed pretty obvious to me at the time that the solution was simply to get everyone to calm down. Doubly so, since becoming a parent I discovered that stress and anxiety are extremely contagious. So the appeal of demons, for me, is simply a coping mechanism by parents to deal with children they cannot cope with or understand, albeit a a pretty drastic one.

IIAOPSW 8y ago
I wonder if in many cases we use a mental disorder diagnosis as a secular substitute. Replace demons with ADD/ASD and witch doctor with child psychologist.
hnuser355 8y ago
Frankly I don’t understand how people with access to the rituals, writings, scripture etc of such a complex religion end up with a worldview of “Thing I like - God. Thing I don’t like - devil”. A typical toddler or infant will probably arrive at a similar morality unaided by such powerful structures I would think.
creep 8y ago

craftyguy 8y ago

> I suppose he associated it only with less educated / developed parts of the world. And he's not wrong.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]