5 ms·

Second woman claims she was paid to pick up ballots in US House District 9 race

63 points by smacktoward 8y ago

torstenvl 8y ago
The lengths North Carolina Republicans will go to cheat democracy is hard to stomach. (N.B.: This is not a partisan attack on Republicans generally, but a criticism of one specific organization.) To my knowledge, they're also the only ones in recent history to be overturned by a federal court for just how gerrymandered the districts in NC were. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-sends-case-on-north-carolina-gerrymandering-back-to-lower-court/2018/06/25/03c1119e-787e-11e8-93cc-6d3beccdd7a3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-c...
- unclebucknasty 8y ago
  What I can't understand is why criminal punishment isn't involved in more of these cases. If you vote illegally, then you're subject to criminal penalty. If you divise a scheme that's clearly intended to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters, and that scheme is ajudicated as such, nothing happens. There is no disincentive. Just try again until you're successful.
- vatueil 8y ago
  To be fair, this appears to be the work of a rogue candidate, Mark Harris, and his supporters, not the GOP establishment. The Republican incumbent, Rep. Pittenger, was also targeted, when Harris challenged and narrowly defeated Pittenger in the Republican primary earlier this year. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-heck-is-happening-in-that-north-carolina-house-race/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-heck-is-happen... > It turns out that the data irregularities in Bladen County extend to past elections, too. The 9th District saw a contentious and razor-close Republican primary in May 2018, when Harris ousted incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger by 828 votes. Bladen accounted for 56 percent of the absentee-by-mail ballots (456 of 811) cast in that primary despite being home to just 6 percent of those who voted — and Harris won 437 of those absentee-by-mail votes to Pittenger’s 17, a massive gap nowhere near either the absentee-by-mail results in other counties or the other results in Bladen. And in the 9th District’s 2016 Republican primary, 22 percent of the race’s absentee-by-mail ballots were cast in Bladen County. That time, they went disproportionately to Pittenger challenger Todd Johnson — he won a whopping 221 of Bladen’s 226 absentee-by-mail votes. https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/rep-pittenger-fully-aware-of-unsavory-people-in-election-fraud-claims https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/rep-pittenger-fully-a... > “We were fully aware of it. There’s some pretty unsavory people out, particularly in Bladen County. And I didn’t have anything to do with them,” Pittenger said in an interview with Spectrum News in Raleigh. > Pittenger, who lost his GOP primary to Baptist minister Mark Harris by 828 votes earlier this year, said he did not know what would happen to the general election results. Harris holds a 905-vote lead over Democrat Dan McCready in the election that has now been cast in doubt. > “I don’t have a clue. I have my feelings about what’s right or wrong, but let’s leave that to those who’re [leading the investigation into the irregularities],” Pittenger said. If the North Carolina Republican party were smart they'd support the bipartisan ethics panel and wash their hands of Harris.
dev_dull 8y ago
It’s really sad that we have such low visibility into actual voter fraud. It seems our elections are broken in such a way that no one is interested in fixing them lest they lose some particular advantage. It’s enough that now I’ve had enough. I want ID required. I want real paper trails. I want to know exactly how many ballots were issued and where each of them was sent. I want to enforce laws such as cutoffs. People who say there’s no evidence of voter fraud. How would you even know?
- chasing 8y ago
  This isn't voter fraud. It's election fraud. Requiring an ID impedes voters. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it turns out it's true. And the problem it purports to solve doesn't actual exist.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  > It’s enough that now I’ve had enough. I want ID required. I understand and agree with the sentiment. I worry, though, about placing too many administrative hurdles in front of a fundamental right. ID is already required; but I assume you mean photo ID. But photo IDs aren't free, and neither is transportation or time off work. Some part of me is concerned that photo ID laws amount to a poll tax. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on that.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    >I worry, though, about placing too many administrative hurdles in front of a fundamental right >Some part of me is concerned that photo ID laws amount to a poll tax. All the arguments against ID requirements, poll taxes and other measures used to disenfranchise poor people can be turned right around and used to argue against licensing requirements, fees and other typical tactics used to keep (mostly poor) people from exercising their right to keep and bear arms. Either restricting people's fundamental human rights is ok or it isn't. I know which hill I'm dying on.
    - kbenson 8y ago
      > Either restricting people's fundamental human rights is ok or it isn't. Are you equating the right to bear arms (as part of a well regulated militia) with fundamental human rights? I think that one might need a bit more explanation.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dvt 8y ago
Elections are woefully behind the times - I can track my pizza, but I can't track my vote? I feel that political infrastructure are where technology can really positively disrupt the landscape. I know it's en vogue to show how easy ballot machines are to cheat and hack -- and maybe they are indeed incompetently built. However, this doesn't mean there isn't a way to use technology to make democratic processes more accurate and streamlined. I pay my rent online, I see my doctor's appointment lab reports online, and I have a powerhouse in my pocket. Technology can be used for evil in this context (see Cambridge Analytica and Russian troll farms), but we need to figure out how to use it for good.
- orev 8y ago
  Seems like vote tracking would open elections up to massive vote buying problems and possibly de-anonymization.
- nathanaldensr 8y ago
  You're assuming that a record of your vote would or could not be used against you; you're wrong. "dvt, unless you return to us from the polling place with proof you voted for Candidate X, we will kill your family."
senectus1 8y ago
I dont understand how the US people and courts allow everything that has been going on. If here in Australia they tried any of the Gerrymandering/voter suppression/political power-plays/outright fraud that has been going on for YEARS in the US, there would be heads rolling. I mean we're pretty apathetic when it comes to politics, but the turning a blind eye to the activities in the US system is just astounding.
Simulacra 8y ago
What’s more interesting is what they’re doing out in California. Campaign workers are going door to door and pushing voters to fill out absentee ballots, then delivering them to polling places.
- iron0013 8y ago
  That sounds like either something that didn't happen, or something legal that you are intentionally twisting to make sound equivalent to the (very illegal) things that are going on in North Carolina. Care to provide some evidence backing your claims?
  - Simulacra 8y ago
    It's anecdotal at this point but I think ballot harvesting did play a role in California. Why keep ballots from people you think might be opposing your party? Toss them and keep only those you think will vote for your party. Next time the Republicans are going to go big for ballot harvesting and I think we're going to see huge fraud issues. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-what-is-ballot-harvesting-in-california-election-code-20181204-htmlstory.html https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversatio... https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ballot-harvesting-20181207-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ballot-harv...

63 points by smacktoward 8y ago

The lengths North Carolina Republicans will go to cheat democracy is hard to stomach. (N.B.: This is not a partisan attack on Republicans generally, but a criticism of one specific organization.) To my knowledge, they're also the only ones in recent history to be overturned by a federal court for just how gerrymandered the districts in NC were. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-sends-case-on-north-carolina-gerrymandering-back-to-lower-court/2018/06/25/03c1119e-787e-11e8-93cc-6d3beccdd7a3_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-c...

unclebucknasty 8y ago
What I can't understand is why criminal punishment isn't involved in more of these cases. If you vote illegally, then you're subject to criminal penalty. If you divise a scheme that's clearly intended to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of voters, and that scheme is ajudicated as such, nothing happens. There is no disincentive. Just try again until you're successful.
vatueil 8y ago
To be fair, this appears to be the work of a rogue candidate, Mark Harris, and his supporters, not the GOP establishment. The Republican incumbent, Rep. Pittenger, was also targeted, when Harris challenged and narrowly defeated Pittenger in the Republican primary earlier this year. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-heck-is-happening-in-that-north-carolina-house-race/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-heck-is-happen... > It turns out that the data irregularities in Bladen County extend to past elections, too. The 9th District saw a contentious and razor-close Republican primary in May 2018, when Harris ousted incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger by 828 votes. Bladen accounted for 56 percent of the absentee-by-mail ballots (456 of 811) cast in that primary despite being home to just 6 percent of those who voted — and Harris won 437 of those absentee-by-mail votes to Pittenger’s 17, a massive gap nowhere near either the absentee-by-mail results in other counties or the other results in Bladen. And in the 9th District’s 2016 Republican primary, 22 percent of the race’s absentee-by-mail ballots were cast in Bladen County. That time, they went disproportionately to Pittenger challenger Todd Johnson — he won a whopping 221 of Bladen’s 226 absentee-by-mail votes. https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/rep-pittenger-fully-aware-of-unsavory-people-in-election-fraud-claims https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/rep-pittenger-fully-a... > “We were fully aware of it. There’s some pretty unsavory people out, particularly in Bladen County. And I didn’t have anything to do with them,” Pittenger said in an interview with Spectrum News in Raleigh. > Pittenger, who lost his GOP primary to Baptist minister Mark Harris by 828 votes earlier this year, said he did not know what would happen to the general election results. Harris holds a 905-vote lead over Democrat Dan McCready in the election that has now been cast in doubt. > “I don’t have a clue. I have my feelings about what’s right or wrong, but let’s leave that to those who’re [leading the investigation into the irregularities],” Pittenger said. If the North Carolina Republican party were smart they'd support the bipartisan ethics panel and wash their hands of Harris.

dev_dull 8y ago

It’s really sad that we have such low visibility into actual voter fraud. It seems our elections are broken in such a way that no one is interested in fixing them lest they lose some particular advantage. It’s enough that now I’ve had enough. I want ID required. I want real paper trails. I want to know exactly how many ballots were issued and where each of them was sent. I want to enforce laws such as cutoffs. People who say there’s no evidence of voter fraud. How would you even know?

chasing 8y ago
This isn't voter fraud. It's election fraud. Requiring an ID impedes voters. Sounds counter-intuitive, but it turns out it's true. And the problem it purports to solve doesn't actual exist.
torstenvl 8y ago
> It’s enough that now I’ve had enough. I want ID required. I understand and agree with the sentiment. I worry, though, about placing too many administrative hurdles in front of a fundamental right. ID is already required; but I assume you mean photo ID. But photo IDs aren't free, and neither is transportation or time off work. Some part of me is concerned that photo ID laws amount to a poll tax. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on that.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  >I worry, though, about placing too many administrative hurdles in front of a fundamental right >Some part of me is concerned that photo ID laws amount to a poll tax. All the arguments against ID requirements, poll taxes and other measures used to disenfranchise poor people can be turned right around and used to argue against licensing requirements, fees and other typical tactics used to keep (mostly poor) people from exercising their right to keep and bear arms. Either restricting people's fundamental human rights is ok or it isn't. I know which hill I'm dying on.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > Either restricting people's fundamental human rights is ok or it isn't. Are you equating the right to bear arms (as part of a well regulated militia) with fundamental human rights? I think that one might need a bit more explanation.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dvt 8y ago

Elections are woefully behind the times - I can track my pizza, but I can't track my vote? I feel that political infrastructure are where technology can really positively disrupt the landscape. I know it's en vogue to show how easy ballot machines are to cheat and hack -- and maybe they are indeed incompetently built. However, this doesn't mean there isn't a way to use technology to make democratic processes more accurate and streamlined. I pay my rent online, I see my doctor's appointment lab reports online, and I have a powerhouse in my pocket. Technology can be used for evil in this context (see Cambridge Analytica and Russian troll farms), but we need to figure out how to use it for good.

orev 8y ago
Seems like vote tracking would open elections up to massive vote buying problems and possibly de-anonymization.
nathanaldensr 8y ago
You're assuming that a record of your vote would or could not be used against you; you're wrong. "dvt, unless you return to us from the polling place with proof you voted for Candidate X, we will kill your family."

senectus1 8y ago

I dont understand how the US people and courts allow everything that has been going on. If here in Australia they tried any of the Gerrymandering/voter suppression/political power-plays/outright fraud that has been going on for YEARS in the US, there would be heads rolling. I mean we're pretty apathetic when it comes to politics, but the turning a blind eye to the activities in the US system is just astounding.

Simulacra 8y ago

What’s more interesting is what they’re doing out in California. Campaign workers are going door to door and pushing voters to fill out absentee ballots, then delivering them to polling places.

iron0013 8y ago
That sounds like either something that didn't happen, or something legal that you are intentionally twisting to make sound equivalent to the (very illegal) things that are going on in North Carolina. Care to provide some evidence backing your claims?
- Simulacra 8y ago
  It's anecdotal at this point but I think ballot harvesting did play a role in California. Why keep ballots from people you think might be opposing your party? Toss them and keep only those you think will vote for your party. Next time the Republicans are going to go big for ballot harvesting and I think we're going to see huge fraud issues. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-what-is-ballot-harvesting-in-california-election-code-20181204-htmlstory.html https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversatio... https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ballot-harvesting-20181207-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ballot-harv...