3 ms·

I can't imagine it is ever the intent of the programmer that if(i+1 < i)x be there simply as decoration to be removed by the compiler. If the compiler can deduc

I can't imagine it is ever the intent of the programmer that if(i+1 < i)x be there simply as decoration to be removed by the compiler. If the compiler can deduce that the test will evaluate as false (or true), it is perfectly reasonable to optimize by deleting the line (or the check, in case of true). But this should be sound deduction. For example, if the target processor traps on overflow, the compiler can deduct that the conditional is always false. But what GCC/Clang do now is (a) generate machine code on x86 and ARM that does wrap, and (b) transform code on the axiom that ints will not wrap!That is, they take "false" for a theorem.

BeeOnRope 8y ago
> I can't imagine it is ever the intent of the programmer that if(i+1 < i)x be there simply as decoration to be removed by the compiler. I agree. > But this should be sound deduction. For example, if the target processor traps on overflow, the compiler can deduct that the conditional is always false. But what GCC/Clang do now is (a) generate machine code on x86 and ARM that does wrap, and (b) transform code on the axiom that ints will not wrap!That is, they take "false" for a theorem. I understand the desire, but you are talking about a different language, maybe assembly. C and C++ compilers just aren't in the habit of purposely compiling ill-formed code differently depending on the target processor. First and foremost they apply the rules of the language, and the rules are oriented towards portable-yet-fast code, and then as a last step they generate assembly or machine code. I _really_ don't think you want the compiler changing the rules of the game depending on the target architecture. In fact, the trend is almost entirely away from this in all modern languages: towards a single consistent execution regardless of the architecture. So the "deductions" you talk about are necessarily going to be against the abstract machine defined in the language, not against the final target. It worth noting too that there is even an increasing trend towards separating the higher-level compilation and optimization and the final generation of a binary from the IR, for example in the Apple App Store I think you now submit IR which can be specialized by the store itself for each target device, including some not created yet. So at least in the initial stages of compilation, you may not even know the target, or it may not even exist at the current time!
- vyodaiken 8y ago
  Even the C standard still pays lip service to the notion of C as high level assembler. The notion that C should be an abstract high level language insulated from the machine is foreign both to the language design and usage. C is not designed to be memory safe, for example. The intent of implementation dependent and undefined in the C specification was to make explicit that the compiler was not entrusted with safeguarding the programmer against non-portable use. The bizarre theory that this can be interpreted as a license to sabotage the programmer in the case of non-portable use makes C unusable for its intended purposes - even if it make it possible to wring performance from terribly written benchmarks.

BeeOnRope 8y ago

> I can't imagine it is ever the intent of the programmer that if(i+1 < i)x be there simply as decoration to be removed by the compiler. I agree. > But this should be sound deduction. For example, if the target processor traps on overflow, the compiler can deduct that the conditional is always false. But what GCC/Clang do now is (a) generate machine code on x86 and ARM that does wrap, and (b) transform code on the axiom that ints will not wrap!That is, they take "false" for a theorem. I understand the desire, but you are talking about a different language, maybe assembly. C and C++ compilers just aren't in the habit of purposely compiling ill-formed code differently depending on the target processor. First and foremost they apply the rules of the language, and the rules are oriented towards portable-yet-fast code, and then as a last step they generate assembly or machine code. I _really_ don't think you want the compiler changing the rules of the game depending on the target architecture. In fact, the trend is almost entirely away from this in all modern languages: towards a single consistent execution regardless of the architecture. So the "deductions" you talk about are necessarily going to be against the abstract machine defined in the language, not against the final target. It worth noting too that there is even an increasing trend towards separating the higher-level compilation and optimization and the final generation of a binary from the IR, for example in the Apple App Store I think you now submit IR which can be specialized by the store itself for each target device, including some not created yet. So at least in the initial stages of compilation, you may not even know the target, or it may not even exist at the current time!

vyodaiken 8y ago
Even the C standard still pays lip service to the notion of C as high level assembler. The notion that C should be an abstract high level language insulated from the machine is foreign both to the language design and usage. C is not designed to be memory safe, for example. The intent of implementation dependent and undefined in the C specification was to make explicit that the compiler was not entrusted with safeguarding the programmer against non-portable use. The bizarre theory that this can be interpreted as a license to sabotage the programmer in the case of non-portable use makes C unusable for its intended purposes - even if it make it possible to wring performance from terribly written benchmarks.