6 ms·

> highlight the troubling willingness with which western states and businesses still jump into bed with the authoritarian dictatorship du jour (usually on the p

> highlight the troubling willingness with which western states and businesses still jump into bed with the authoritarian dictatorship du jour (usually on the proviso that it has a lot of oil) This point is still a mystery to me. If it's always been about oil, then the US is currently the largest oil producer. Why are we still relying on these countries for anything?? Is it leveraging their wealth for other investments?

Nursie 8y ago
Massive concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, a few who are willing to spend it lavishly on western goods and services? Might be something to do with it. Their economies are not amongst the world's largest, but they have disproportionate power to spend for these reasons, AFAICT
lotsofpulp 8y ago
Many people in the US government are also interested in selling weapons, as well as making sure the kings of those countries are investing a good portion of their money back in the US.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- wavefunction 8y ago
  Many people in Silicon Valley are interested in making sure the kings of those countries are investing a good portion of their money back into their tech ventures.
awakeasleep 8y ago
The answer to this is 'geopolitics' which is basically unknowable to schmucks like us, but you can read the conjecture of people who follow it and see if it makes sense to you: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/11/if-saudi-oil-no-longer-matters-why-is-trump-still-supporting-them.html https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/11/if-saudi-oil-no-longer...
tom_ 8y ago
Higher oil prices would not be (much) in US interest, as imports are nearly 50% of daily consumption: https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/weekly/ https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/weekly/
losteric 8y ago
> If it's always been about oil, then the US is currently the largest oil producer. Why are we still relying on these countries for anything? "Oil" means "lots of money". Why do capitalist nations work with extremely rich unethical countries? Well, we want some of their money. And because "free trade!!" is a reasonable argument in the US, a whole web of conflicting motives has sprung up perpetuating trade... weapons manufacturers and fossil fuel infrastructure companies lobbying politicians for "jobs" (profit), citizens misled by simplified mainstream media, hawkish doves demanding stability for the people by supporting strong states, dovish hawks insisting on elimination of rebel forces, Europe's reliance on stability to avoid immigration crisis and dependency on Russian energy, huge foreign investments in the US economy (eg Silicon Valley), stability of international oil prices influencing stability of domestic revenue, religious tension and political lobbying (Israel)... on and on.
scott_s 8y ago
We are not the largest (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=oil_where https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=oil_where): > About 100 countries produce crude oil. In 2017, 48% of the world's total crude oil production came from five countries: > Russia — 13% > Saudi Arabia — 13% > United States — 12% > Iraq — 6% > Iran — 5% Clearly a major producer, but not nearly enough to set the market price. And that's the key thing: it's a global market. Even if we set internal US policy to only consume US produced oil, we would still be affected by production of other country's because it's the global oil supply that affects the price of that oil.
- at-fates-hands 8y ago
  Since September of this year we are: For the first time since 1973, the United States is the world's largest producer of crude oil, according to preliminary estimates published on Wednesday by the Energy Department. Texas is the epicenter of the shale boom. Production in the Permian Basin of West Texas has grown so much that in February the United States vaulted above Saudi Arabia for the first time in more than two decades, according to the US Energy Information Administration. US output kept climbing in June and August, reaching nearly 11 million barrels per day. That nudged the United States ahead of Russia for the first time since February 1999, the EIA estimates. The United States isn't expected to cede its crown any time soon. The EIA expects US oil production to stay ahead of Russia and Saudi Arabia through 2019. https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/12/investing/us-oil-production-russia-saudi-arabia/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/12/investing/us-oil-production...
  - scott_s 8y ago
    Which is fine, as it does not disagree with my main point: we are not a large enough producer to set the market price.
    - yayana 8y ago
      The US produces ~13% and consumes ~20%. Given that marginal amounts change pricing drastically, there's really no one who could change the market against the wishes of the US. The wishes of the US are to kill us all with this cheap crude.

Nursie 8y ago

Massive concentration of wealth in the hands of the few, a few who are willing to spend it lavishly on western goods and services? Might be something to do with it. Their economies are not amongst the world's largest, but they have disproportionate power to spend for these reasons, AFAICT

lotsofpulp 8y ago

Many people in the US government are also interested in selling weapons, as well as making sure the kings of those countries are investing a good portion of their money back in the US.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wavefunction 8y ago
Many people in Silicon Valley are interested in making sure the kings of those countries are investing a good portion of their money back into their tech ventures.

awakeasleep 8y ago

The answer to this is 'geopolitics' which is basically unknowable to schmucks like us, but you can read the conjecture of people who follow it and see if it makes sense to you: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/11/if-saudi-oil-no-longer-matters-why-is-trump-still-supporting-them.html https://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/11/if-saudi-oil-no-longer...

tom_ 8y ago

Higher oil prices would not be (much) in US interest, as imports are nearly 50% of daily consumption: https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/weekly/ https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/weekly/

losteric 8y ago

> If it's always been about oil, then the US is currently the largest oil producer. Why are we still relying on these countries for anything? "Oil" means "lots of money". Why do capitalist nations work with extremely rich unethical countries? Well, we want some of their money. And because "free trade!!" is a reasonable argument in the US, a whole web of conflicting motives has sprung up perpetuating trade... weapons manufacturers and fossil fuel infrastructure companies lobbying politicians for "jobs" (profit), citizens misled by simplified mainstream media, hawkish doves demanding stability for the people by supporting strong states, dovish hawks insisting on elimination of rebel forces, Europe's reliance on stability to avoid immigration crisis and dependency on Russian energy, huge foreign investments in the US economy (eg Silicon Valley), stability of international oil prices influencing stability of domestic revenue, religious tension and political lobbying (Israel)... on and on.

scott_s 8y ago

We are not the largest (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=oil_where https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=oil_where): > About 100 countries produce crude oil. In 2017, 48% of the world's total crude oil production came from five countries: > Russia — 13% > Saudi Arabia — 13% > United States — 12% > Iraq — 6% > Iran — 5% Clearly a major producer, but not nearly enough to set the market price. And that's the key thing: it's a global market. Even if we set internal US policy to only consume US produced oil, we would still be affected by production of other country's because it's the global oil supply that affects the price of that oil.

at-fates-hands 8y ago
Since September of this year we are: For the first time since 1973, the United States is the world's largest producer of crude oil, according to preliminary estimates published on Wednesday by the Energy Department. Texas is the epicenter of the shale boom. Production in the Permian Basin of West Texas has grown so much that in February the United States vaulted above Saudi Arabia for the first time in more than two decades, according to the US Energy Information Administration. US output kept climbing in June and August, reaching nearly 11 million barrels per day. That nudged the United States ahead of Russia for the first time since February 1999, the EIA estimates. The United States isn't expected to cede its crown any time soon. The EIA expects US oil production to stay ahead of Russia and Saudi Arabia through 2019. https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/12/investing/us-oil-production-russia-saudi-arabia/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/12/investing/us-oil-production...
- scott_s 8y ago
  Which is fine, as it does not disagree with my main point: we are not a large enough producer to set the market price.
  - yayana 8y ago
    The US produces ~13% and consumes ~20%. Given that marginal amounts change pricing drastically, there's really no one who could change the market against the wishes of the US. The wishes of the US are to kill us all with this cheap crude.