4 ms·

To attempt to add a bit of rigor to the discussion, here's what Numbeo thinks about the cost of living. They have 70k Eur in London as being about the same as 6

To attempt to add a bit of rigor to the discussion, here's what Numbeo thinks about the cost of living. They have 70k Eur in London as being about the same as 62.5k euros in Amsterdam taking into account taxes[0]. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Netherlands&city2=Amsterdam&amount=70000&displayCurrency=EUR https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou... I definitely agree that there are more/interesting jobs for a lot of people in London, but I think that's changing. I think the other hard part for Dutch programmers is that the education system seems to be quite good, leading to a pretty deep talent market for a somewhat shallow hiring pool. I do have one bit of terrible news: I think you've been overpaying for beers in Amsterdam. ;) [0] One phenomena I've noticed is expats/immigrants tend to get better deals on housing because they have less cultural baggage about which areas are "nice" and can often see with clear eyes which areas are actually nice and which are actually bad.

0db532a0 8y ago
Your argument isn’t rigorous in that it assumes salaries are the same. A programmer earning 70k in London would be hard pressed to earn the equivalent in Euros in Amsterdam. Also as someone who has spent a good bit of money in bars and clubs all around Amsterdam as a student, and not just as a tourist in the red light district, I don’t know where you’ve managed to get beer below 2.50 apart from one or two self-professed anarchist establishments, so I don’t know how rigorous a source Numbeo is either.
- estsauver 8y ago
  It's tough for me to know how engineering salaries stack up, I'm only hiring in Amsterdam and haven't looked deeply at what London markets look like. At least at the high end, they tend to be relationship and individual market driven. At a macro level, payscale has some interesting comparisons here with N> 250 each. Software Engineer: https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Software_Engineer/S... https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Software_Engineer/S... Senior Software Engineers (N> 400 for both) https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Eng... https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Sr._Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Sr._Software_Engine... For beers: I think you're looking at the "Grocery section", Beers are priced at 4 euros in the "Restauraunt" zone. I will, in actuality, buy you a delicious <4 euro beer at one of a few bars around our office. I don't know how many other consumer indices are backed by a personal guarantee.
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    We’re comparing London and Amsterdam, and then you come up with a source that compares countries.
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    I’m also going to have to take you up on that <4 Euro half litre of beer next time I’m in Amsterdam.
- wenc 8y ago
  > where you’ve managed to get beer below 2.50 At vending machines in train stations. When I was there, cheap Belgian beers were about EUR 2.50.

0db532a0 8y ago

Your argument isn’t rigorous in that it assumes salaries are the same. A programmer earning 70k in London would be hard pressed to earn the equivalent in Euros in Amsterdam. Also as someone who has spent a good bit of money in bars and clubs all around Amsterdam as a student, and not just as a tourist in the red light district, I don’t know where you’ve managed to get beer below 2.50 apart from one or two self-professed anarchist establishments, so I don’t know how rigorous a source Numbeo is either.

estsauver 8y ago
It's tough for me to know how engineering salaries stack up, I'm only hiring in Amsterdam and haven't looked deeply at what London markets look like. At least at the high end, they tend to be relationship and individual market driven. At a macro level, payscale has some interesting comparisons here with N> 250 each. Software Engineer: https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Software_Engineer/S... https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Software_Engineer/S... Senior Software Engineers (N> 400 for both) https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Engineer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Senior_Software_Eng... https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Sr._Software_Engineer_%2f_Developer_%2f_Programmer/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/NL/Job=Sr._Software_Engine... For beers: I think you're looking at the "Grocery section", Beers are priced at 4 euros in the "Restauraunt" zone. I will, in actuality, buy you a delicious <4 euro beer at one of a few bars around our office. I don't know how many other consumer indices are backed by a personal guarantee.
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  We’re comparing London and Amsterdam, and then you come up with a source that compares countries.
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  I’m also going to have to take you up on that <4 Euro half litre of beer next time I’m in Amsterdam.
wenc 8y ago
> where you’ve managed to get beer below 2.50 At vending machines in train stations. When I was there, cheap Belgian beers were about EUR 2.50.