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I don't know how laws and culture are in the USA, but in my country (Italy) vote is not an obligation. Vote is a right, and a hard earned one. It is also consid

I don't know how laws and culture are in the USA, but in my country (Italy) vote is not an obligation. Vote is a right, and a hard earned one. It is also considered a civil duty. But never an obligation. The choice not to vote is also an expression of one's idea: that he does not believe in any of the politicians, or in the system as a whole. Lack of votes is also a measure on how much people believe in politicians. Italy has never been so corrupted in the past (transversally, in every party) as it is now, and this is reflected in the fact that the percentage of people who did not vote at the last elections was the highest one.

blue1 16y ago
"Never an obligation" is imprecise. Voting in Italy was obligatory until 1993. Also see article 48 of the italian constitution, where the exercise of the vote is defined "a civic duty".
tallanvor 16y ago
I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. If you make a conscious decision not to vote, that is a valid way of expressing your opinion. But I doubt many non-voters are making that choice. Apathy or the belief that their vote won't make a difference are the biggest reasons people don't vote (at least based on the people I know who don't vote), and that is a problem. I would rather people care enough to vote, no matter who they vote for - even if it means more crazy people in politics.
jdub 16y ago
No, choosing to not vote is choosing to not express your idea. (If you don't believe in the system at all, do not make use of it at all -- and we don't see many people actually doing that.)
- thenduks 16y ago
  You're right. Personally in the case where I don't want to vote for anyone (most of the time) I go down to the booth and 'ruin' my ballot. The number of ruined ballots is sometimes counted and sometimes not, but at least the effort is made and it's harder for someone to argue that you're just too lazy to vote.
wazoox 16y ago
> Italy has never been so corrupted in the past (transversally, in every party) as it is now Are you sure? Did you forget the fall of all the "traditional" political parties 15 years ago or so, and the first rise of Berlusconi?
- DeusExMachina 16y ago
  I do not forget it. There could be a political debate on how Berlusconi went into politics just to perpetuate the previous system, but this is not the right place. Looking at the Transparency International chart you can find Italy at the 67th place, under highly corrupted african countries: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/... Looking at the historical data you can see Italy going down the chart, from position 29 in 2001 to 67 today: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2001 http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/...

blue1 16y ago

"Never an obligation" is imprecise. Voting in Italy was obligatory until 1993. Also see article 48 of the italian constitution, where the exercise of the vote is defined "a civic duty".

tallanvor 16y ago

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right. If you make a conscious decision not to vote, that is a valid way of expressing your opinion. But I doubt many non-voters are making that choice. Apathy or the belief that their vote won't make a difference are the biggest reasons people don't vote (at least based on the people I know who don't vote), and that is a problem. I would rather people care enough to vote, no matter who they vote for - even if it means more crazy people in politics.

jdub 16y ago

No, choosing to not vote is choosing to not express your idea. (If you don't believe in the system at all, do not make use of it at all -- and we don't see many people actually doing that.)

thenduks 16y ago
You're right. Personally in the case where I don't want to vote for anyone (most of the time) I go down to the booth and 'ruin' my ballot. The number of ruined ballots is sometimes counted and sometimes not, but at least the effort is made and it's harder for someone to argue that you're just too lazy to vote.

wazoox 16y ago

> Italy has never been so corrupted in the past (transversally, in every party) as it is now Are you sure? Did you forget the fall of all the "traditional" political parties 15 years ago or so, and the first rise of Berlusconi?

DeusExMachina 16y ago
I do not forget it. There could be a political debate on how Berlusconi went into politics just to perpetuate the previous system, but this is not the right place. Looking at the Transparency International chart you can find Italy at the 67th place, under highly corrupted african countries: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/... Looking at the historical data you can see Italy going down the chart, from position 29 in 2001 to 67 today: http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2001 http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/...