5 ms·

I think this is the essence of most modern entertainment. I once produced a pilot children's animation and had written a "bible" - the text that sets out what y

I think this is the essence of most modern entertainment. I once produced a pilot children's animation and had written a "bible" - the text that sets out what you plan to do for a series - and was told by a senior commissioner in no uncertain terms that modern children's tv series "must take place in the same place with the same characters so kids can come home and watch the show at the same time every day and feel like they have a family while their parents are doing something else. That way they buy into the brand and parents buy all the merchandise". As you mention, it's the inevitable consequence of optimisation and why there should always be a space for government-funded programming and art.

WalterBright 8y ago
> there should always be a space for government-funded programming and art Government funded art doesn't make it pure art, it makes it art that serves the political aims of the bureaucrats charged with doling out the money.
- campbellmorgan 8y ago
  Absolutely. But I for one would rather live in a world that had the diversity of both private and state-funded art, each with their own biases. Surely that's better than the single influence of the market?
  - WalterBright 8y ago
    Consider the explosion of music that's available. AFAIK, none of it is funded by the government, yet there's music for every conceivable taste. Almost no two people have the same taste in art, and what they're willing to pay for. I doubt you'd be living in a world that doesn't have art you like if the government didn't fund it.
    - dagw 8y ago
      AFAIK, none of it is funded by the government Virtually all governments all over the world have various arts funding schemes that covers music. That being said I have no strong opinion either way on if that's a good thing or if the music funded this wouldn't have been funded some other way if those schemes hadn't existed
      - WalterBright 8y ago
        I know the local concert hall gets some funding from the government for performances. I don't think it funds composers.
        dagw 8y ago
        I don't think it funds composers. What country are you in? Definitely if you're in the US or Europe there are plenty of places you can apply for government funding if you're a composer. Also if the government is funding the concert hall and that funding lets the concert hall put on work by and pay a composer, at what point does it stop being government funding?
        WalterBright 8y ago
        Just out of curiosity, can you name a CD produced in the US by a composer paid by the government to compose? > at what point does it stop being government funding? It's a good question, and I replied to that in another comment.
        foldr 8y ago
        Why does there have to be a CD? Music ≠ recorded music. http://www.playbill.com/article/national-endowment-of-the-arts-awards-over-3-million-in-grants-to-149-us-theatres http://www.playbill.com/article/national-endowment-of-the-ar... https://www.musicofremembrance.org/news/national-endowment-arts-announces-grant-seattles-music-remembrance-0 https://www.musicofremembrance.org/news/national-endowment-a... If you specifically want an example of a grant being awarded to a composer for the purposes of composing a new piece, see here: https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwclassical/article/Chicago-Philharmonic-Society-Receives-10K-NEA-Grant-for-August-Read-Thomas-Collaboration-and-More-20151208 https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwclassical/article/Chicago-P... "The Chicago Philharmonic Society has been named the recipient of a $10,000 Art Works grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. The award will support a collaboration between The Chicago Philharmonic Society, composer Augusta Read Thomas, and Chicago-based percussion ensemble Third Coast Percussion for the creation and performance of a new work for percussion quartet and orchestra. The premiere will be presented in fall 2017 as part of the Chicago Philharmonic's 2017-2018 symphonic season."
  - berkmayer 8y ago
    You can see you are asking people to fund art that bureaucrats support or go to jail, right?
- dagw 8y ago
  Government funded art doesn't make it pure art Sure, but it's no less pure than art funded by a private benefactor or patron.
  - WalterBright 8y ago
    What percentage of the CDs you own were government funded? (Or MP3's on your player.)
    - dagw 8y ago
      I haven't got the slightest clue, nor do I care. And more importantly what do you mean by funded? If the local council offer free or subsidized rehearsal space to local up and coming bands, is the album they created there "government funded"?
      - WalterBright 8y ago
        I'd say no. But some people would say that the road the band used to drive around was government funded, therefore their music is. I don't agree with them. I'd say government funding is when the government pays money to a specific artist to produce art. Like when a record company decides to pay a band to produce an album, or a publisher decides to give an advance to an author to write a book.
        SyneRyder 8y ago
        Australian here - I just discovered today that our current right/conservative government has a program where artists can receive a $15,000 grant to record their album [1], and the left/progressive opposition has pledged to double the number of grant recipients if elected [2]. I can't say I've heard of any of the 2017 grant recipients. [1] http://www.australiacouncil.gov.au/news/media-centre/media-releases/ppca-and-the-australia-council-announce-recording-grants-recipients/ http://www.australiacouncil.gov.au/news/media-centre/media-r... [2] https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/labor-promises-28m-for-australian-music-projects/ https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/labor-promises-28m-fo...
jedmeyers 8y ago
> there should always be a space for government-funded programming and art. Why is everything people want has to be government funded? Just go ask people for money directly, like a lot of the abovementioned youtube stars do. Tax man with the gun does not have to be involved with this.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  What country do you live in where the tax men have guns!? Ours just send lots of strongly-worded letters.
  - TomMarius 8y ago
    Basically all of (central, where I live) Europe, not sure about the USA. The police comes if you don't pay - it's a criminal offence. Nobody would pay if they only sent letters. Also European ministries of finances often have their own armed forces (customs administration[1]). [1] For example the Czech Customs Administration: https://www.celnisprava.cz/en/Pages/default.aspx https://www.celnisprava.cz/en/Pages/default.aspx - note the sentence at the top: "Customs Administration of the Czech Republic is a security force ensuring processes in the field of customs administration and related taxes, as well as other non-fiscal activities in the favor of the state and its citizens. It is subordinated to the Ministry of Finance."

WalterBright 8y ago

> there should always be a space for government-funded programming and art Government funded art doesn't make it pure art, it makes it art that serves the political aims of the bureaucrats charged with doling out the money.

campbellmorgan 8y ago
Absolutely. But I for one would rather live in a world that had the diversity of both private and state-funded art, each with their own biases. Surely that's better than the single influence of the market?
- WalterBright 8y ago
  Consider the explosion of music that's available. AFAIK, none of it is funded by the government, yet there's music for every conceivable taste. Almost no two people have the same taste in art, and what they're willing to pay for. I doubt you'd be living in a world that doesn't have art you like if the government didn't fund it.
  - dagw 8y ago
    AFAIK, none of it is funded by the government Virtually all governments all over the world have various arts funding schemes that covers music. That being said I have no strong opinion either way on if that's a good thing or if the music funded this wouldn't have been funded some other way if those schemes hadn't existed
    - WalterBright 8y ago
      I know the local concert hall gets some funding from the government for performances. I don't think it funds composers.
      - dagw 8y ago
        I don't think it funds composers. What country are you in? Definitely if you're in the US or Europe there are plenty of places you can apply for government funding if you're a composer. Also if the government is funding the concert hall and that funding lets the concert hall put on work by and pay a composer, at what point does it stop being government funding?
        WalterBright 8y ago
        Just out of curiosity, can you name a CD produced in the US by a composer paid by the government to compose? > at what point does it stop being government funding? It's a good question, and I replied to that in another comment.
        foldr 8y ago
        Why does there have to be a CD? Music ≠ recorded music. http://www.playbill.com/article/national-endowment-of-the-arts-awards-over-3-million-in-grants-to-149-us-theatres http://www.playbill.com/article/national-endowment-of-the-ar... https://www.musicofremembrance.org/news/national-endowment-arts-announces-grant-seattles-music-remembrance-0 https://www.musicofremembrance.org/news/national-endowment-a... If you specifically want an example of a grant being awarded to a composer for the purposes of composing a new piece, see here: https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwclassical/article/Chicago-Philharmonic-Society-Receives-10K-NEA-Grant-for-August-Read-Thomas-Collaboration-and-More-20151208 https://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwclassical/article/Chicago-P... "The Chicago Philharmonic Society has been named the recipient of a $10,000 Art Works grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. The award will support a collaboration between The Chicago Philharmonic Society, composer Augusta Read Thomas, and Chicago-based percussion ensemble Third Coast Percussion for the creation and performance of a new work for percussion quartet and orchestra. The premiere will be presented in fall 2017 as part of the Chicago Philharmonic's 2017-2018 symphonic season."
- berkmayer 8y ago
  You can see you are asking people to fund art that bureaucrats support or go to jail, right?
dagw 8y ago
Government funded art doesn't make it pure art Sure, but it's no less pure than art funded by a private benefactor or patron.
- WalterBright 8y ago
  What percentage of the CDs you own were government funded? (Or MP3's on your player.)
  - dagw 8y ago
    I haven't got the slightest clue, nor do I care. And more importantly what do you mean by funded? If the local council offer free or subsidized rehearsal space to local up and coming bands, is the album they created there "government funded"?
    - WalterBright 8y ago
      I'd say no. But some people would say that the road the band used to drive around was government funded, therefore their music is. I don't agree with them. I'd say government funding is when the government pays money to a specific artist to produce art. Like when a record company decides to pay a band to produce an album, or a publisher decides to give an advance to an author to write a book.
      - SyneRyder 8y ago
        Australian here - I just discovered today that our current right/conservative government has a program where artists can receive a $15,000 grant to record their album [1], and the left/progressive opposition has pledged to double the number of grant recipients if elected [2]. I can't say I've heard of any of the 2017 grant recipients. [1] http://www.australiacouncil.gov.au/news/media-centre/media-releases/ppca-and-the-australia-council-announce-recording-grants-recipients/ http://www.australiacouncil.gov.au/news/media-centre/media-r... [2] https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/labor-promises-28m-for-australian-music-projects/ https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/labor-promises-28m-fo...

jedmeyers 8y ago

> there should always be a space for government-funded programming and art. Why is everything people want has to be government funded? Just go ask people for money directly, like a lot of the abovementioned youtube stars do. Tax man with the gun does not have to be involved with this.

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
What country do you live in where the tax men have guns!? Ours just send lots of strongly-worded letters.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  Basically all of (central, where I live) Europe, not sure about the USA. The police comes if you don't pay - it's a criminal offence. Nobody would pay if they only sent letters. Also European ministries of finances often have their own armed forces (customs administration[1]). [1] For example the Czech Customs Administration: https://www.celnisprava.cz/en/Pages/default.aspx https://www.celnisprava.cz/en/Pages/default.aspx - note the sentence at the top: "Customs Administration of the Czech Republic is a security force ensuring processes in the field of customs administration and related taxes, as well as other non-fiscal activities in the favor of the state and its citizens. It is subordinated to the Ministry of Finance."