4 ms·

Why do we devs get the blame for avoiding their crap browser all that has burned us over and over? Repeatedly. For years. Hours and hours of frustration on this

by jhare 8y ago

Why do we devs get the blame for avoiding their crap browser all that has burned us over and over? Repeatedly. For years. Hours and hours of frustration on this front. Encouraging the best-working alternative is the creation of monoculture? C'mon

ComputerGuru 8y ago
Edge isn’t IE. That you don’t know that is indicative of the problem.
- ianschmitz 8y ago
  Have you opened up the dev tools?
- bayindirh 8y ago
  Edge is an evolution of Internet Explorer. They removed some of the quirks they have added over the years, modernized the engine, but it's Internet Explorer to its core. It's just rebranded.
  - alimbada 8y ago
    No, it's a new browser built from the ground up with none of the baggage of IE.
    - bayindirh 8y ago
      Any reliable sources? I'd love to read more, and correct my knowledge if it's wrong.
      - pndy 8y ago
        Edge uses forked Trident (named EdgeHTML) which was stripped of legacy code and tries to be compatible with WebKit engine: https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-explorer-of-course https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-...
        bayindirh 8y ago
        That's also what I tried to say in my previous (grandparent) comment, no? :)
        pndy 8y ago
        Was reading about Edge before posting comment so I guess I was bit too late to help :P
    - bwindels 8y ago
      Thought so too, but MS has apparently said it is a fork: https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-explorer-of-course https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-...: > The Spartan rendering engine (edgehtml.dll) is a new component and separate from Trident (mshtml.dll). The new engine began as a fork of Trident, but has since diverged rapidly over the past many months, similar to how several other browser engines have started as forks prior to diverging. The new rendering engine is also being built with a very different set of principles than Trident - for example: a focus on interoperability and the removal of document modes.
- taneq 8y ago
  The problem is that devs got so sick of IE6 not being standards compliant (despite the fact that it was released before the standards were finalised and it was so good that people kept using it for years) that they refused to even contemplate any MS web browser ever again?
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    Nope. IE6 was great, when it was released. That was...in 2001, seventeen years ago. Then MS sat on its hands for years, leaving IE6 in the dust. Then it suddenly woke up, and released IE7...which didn't differ much...and IE8, which was only about a year behind everyone else. And then MS sat on its hands again. I remember the Second Browser War, and I find your account disingenuous at the very least. (And that's even before mentioning the bundling tactics)
    - taneq 8y ago
      Uh, wow - I said "it was so good that people kept using it for years" meaning "until 2005 or something", not "and IE6 is awesome and we should all use it until today". I think your post here is more about your own PTSD from having to support IE6 than it was about my post. :S
      - Piskvorrr 8y ago
        Nope again. "People kept using it for years" because the web was Built For Microsoft Explorer, to the tune of `if (!navigator.userAgent.match(/MSIE/)) window.location='notsupported.htm';` Not at all similar to today's web Built For Google Chrome, notatall, noooo.
- npolet 8y ago
  It almost doesn't matter. Do you remember the hours and hours spent trying to debug something on IE that worked perfectly on Chrome/Firefox/Safari? All because MS didn't follow the standards that everyone was getting used to and had (mostly) advocated? The thought of having to do anything remotely similar to that makes me shiver. Since MS made me go through that years ago, I simply will not go through that again. They did such a poor job with IE and it takes time for wounds to heal. Might sound a bit pathetic, but working life without having to develop for IE is much nicer. Chrome, Firefox and Safari generally behave in a similar manner. Yes, there are some inconsistencies, but nothing like IE. Especially the earlier versions (6!).

by jhare 8y ago

ComputerGuru 8y ago

Edge isn’t IE. That you don’t know that is indicative of the problem.

ianschmitz 8y ago
Have you opened up the dev tools?
bayindirh 8y ago
Edge is an evolution of Internet Explorer. They removed some of the quirks they have added over the years, modernized the engine, but it's Internet Explorer to its core. It's just rebranded.
- alimbada 8y ago
  No, it's a new browser built from the ground up with none of the baggage of IE.
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    Any reliable sources? I'd love to read more, and correct my knowledge if it's wrong.
    - pndy 8y ago
      Edge uses forked Trident (named EdgeHTML) which was stripped of legacy code and tries to be compatible with WebKit engine: https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-explorer-of-course https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-...
      - bayindirh 8y ago
        That's also what I tried to say in my previous (grandparent) comment, no? :)
        pndy 8y ago
        Was reading about Edge before posting comment so I guess I was bit too late to help :P
  - bwindels 8y ago
    Thought so too, but MS has apparently said it is a fork: https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-explorer-of-course https://www.neowin.net/news/whats-powering-spartan-internet-...: > The Spartan rendering engine (edgehtml.dll) is a new component and separate from Trident (mshtml.dll). The new engine began as a fork of Trident, but has since diverged rapidly over the past many months, similar to how several other browser engines have started as forks prior to diverging. The new rendering engine is also being built with a very different set of principles than Trident - for example: a focus on interoperability and the removal of document modes.
taneq 8y ago
The problem is that devs got so sick of IE6 not being standards compliant (despite the fact that it was released before the standards were finalised and it was so good that people kept using it for years) that they refused to even contemplate any MS web browser ever again?
- Piskvorrr 8y ago
  Nope. IE6 was great, when it was released. That was...in 2001, seventeen years ago. Then MS sat on its hands for years, leaving IE6 in the dust. Then it suddenly woke up, and released IE7...which didn't differ much...and IE8, which was only about a year behind everyone else. And then MS sat on its hands again. I remember the Second Browser War, and I find your account disingenuous at the very least. (And that's even before mentioning the bundling tactics)
  - taneq 8y ago
    Uh, wow - I said "it was so good that people kept using it for years" meaning "until 2005 or something", not "and IE6 is awesome and we should all use it until today". I think your post here is more about your own PTSD from having to support IE6 than it was about my post. :S
    - Piskvorrr 8y ago
      Nope again. "People kept using it for years" because the web was Built For Microsoft Explorer, to the tune of `if (!navigator.userAgent.match(/MSIE/)) window.location='notsupported.htm';` Not at all similar to today's web Built For Google Chrome, notatall, noooo.
npolet 8y ago
It almost doesn't matter. Do you remember the hours and hours spent trying to debug something on IE that worked perfectly on Chrome/Firefox/Safari? All because MS didn't follow the standards that everyone was getting used to and had (mostly) advocated? The thought of having to do anything remotely similar to that makes me shiver. Since MS made me go through that years ago, I simply will not go through that again. They did such a poor job with IE and it takes time for wounds to heal. Might sound a bit pathetic, but working life without having to develop for IE is much nicer. Chrome, Firefox and Safari generally behave in a similar manner. Yes, there are some inconsistencies, but nothing like IE. Especially the earlier versions (6!).