3 ms·

Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. And the progressive wing's go-to is "they're r

Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. And the progressive wing's go-to is "they're racist". Those 4 states voted for Obama twice, how racist can they be?

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. No, they didn’t both do that; the progressive populist faction, particularly, did not (the fact that the progressive faction was outperforming among constituencies like rural whites, both nationally and specifically in the Midwest, that were traditionally seen as more conservative, whereas the neoliberal faction’s strength was focussed in what were conventionally seen as progressive urban/coastal strongholds and minority constituencies was one of the most heavily reported surprises of the primary, and was a direct result of that.) The neoliberal faction won the primary and controlled general election strategy, controlling both the Presidential campaign and the DNC, sure, but it wasn't both factions ignoring the constituency you point to.
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  Those white people certainly didn't think the progressive wing was listening to them. Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? If we're judging by the loudest opinions? What do their wives think about that, if the man happens to be the breadwinner?
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. Again, the progressive populist faction wasn't involved in the Presidential general election. So, yeah, all you are doing is pointing out that the neoliberal faction was ignoring the problem, which I said at the outset. > I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. Again, the progressive populist faction’s support from the demographic in question was one of the big stories of the primary (and one of the reasons Trump specifically targeted Sanders supporters—overtly and by name—in the general.) > What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? The progressive populist faction is the segment of the party least interested in (other maybe than economic class-based) identity politics.
  - hnmonkey 8y ago
    Yes, the midwest people never think the progressive wing is listening no matter what and no matter how much listening and actual solution creation happens. That's really more on them than anyone else. The party that had plans to move people from coal shoveling to solar installers? Democrats. The part that didn't actually care about the people in the midwest and just lied to them that their jobs would be fine or would come back? Republicans. Their jobs are going the way of the dodo right now and have been over the past 2 years. What's the progressive wing opinion on white men? There isn't one... like at all. It's not a thing that exists currently as a goal of theirs to focus on. Are you ascribing a white men opinion to Democrats from somewhere?

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. No, they didn’t both do that; the progressive populist faction, particularly, did not (the fact that the progressive faction was outperforming among constituencies like rural whites, both nationally and specifically in the Midwest, that were traditionally seen as more conservative, whereas the neoliberal faction’s strength was focussed in what were conventionally seen as progressive urban/coastal strongholds and minority constituencies was one of the most heavily reported surprises of the primary, and was a direct result of that.) The neoliberal faction won the primary and controlled general election strategy, controlling both the Presidential campaign and the DNC, sure, but it wasn't both factions ignoring the constituency you point to.

yourbandsucks 8y ago
Those white people certainly didn't think the progressive wing was listening to them. Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? If we're judging by the loudest opinions? What do their wives think about that, if the man happens to be the breadwinner?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. Again, the progressive populist faction wasn't involved in the Presidential general election. So, yeah, all you are doing is pointing out that the neoliberal faction was ignoring the problem, which I said at the outset. > I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. Again, the progressive populist faction’s support from the demographic in question was one of the big stories of the primary (and one of the reasons Trump specifically targeted Sanders supporters—overtly and by name—in the general.) > What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? The progressive populist faction is the segment of the party least interested in (other maybe than economic class-based) identity politics.
- hnmonkey 8y ago
  Yes, the midwest people never think the progressive wing is listening no matter what and no matter how much listening and actual solution creation happens. That's really more on them than anyone else. The party that had plans to move people from coal shoveling to solar installers? Democrats. The part that didn't actually care about the people in the midwest and just lied to them that their jobs would be fine or would come back? Republicans. Their jobs are going the way of the dodo right now and have been over the past 2 years. What's the progressive wing opinion on white men? There isn't one... like at all. It's not a thing that exists currently as a goal of theirs to focus on. Are you ascribing a white men opinion to Democrats from somewhere?