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As someone who has (luckily) only had to support Firefox/Edge/Chrome, can you go into why IE11 is so bad? In the very small amount of testing I've done, everyth

As someone who has (luckily) only had to support Firefox/Edge/Chrome, can you go into why IE11 is so bad? In the very small amount of testing I've done, everything seems to render just fine (especially compared to IE6/7/8)

pier25 8y ago
Huh... JavaScript?
srgpqt 8y ago
https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs
le-mark 8y ago
I've been on multi year projects to modernize old IE applications, and one of the things that IE11 misses is "standard" xpath evaluation. A lot of old "dhtml" apps were all in on soap/xml. There's some wierd IE only hold over css in it like cursor hand vs pointer. On the whole it's not too bad really. The reason why IE11 will live for a long, long time is it's compatability modes. You can run apps all the way back to IE7 on it. And yes these still exist.
- chipperyman573 8y ago
  >There's some wierd IE only hold over css in it like cursor hand vs pointer Wow, that would really frustrate me. One of the first things I do (or check to make sure it's done by whatever css library I'm using) is add a { cursor:pointer; } to my css file. The first time I tested a website in IE11, I would be pulling my hair out!! Or more likely I would google it, but still, it would be frustrating.
ivankolev 8y ago
For one it does not support css grid, which is really the best way to do layout atm.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  It also doesn't support flexbox very well. Had lots of issues with that a year ago.
TimTheTinker 8y ago
Here's a quick feature comparison between IE11 and the other major browsers: https://caniuse.com/#compare=ie+11,firefox+63,chrome+70,safari+12 https://caniuse.com/#compare=ie+11,firefox+63,chrome+70,safa... It's utterly depressing how many red "No"s there are in the left column next to green "Yes"s -- all the features we could use if we could merely drop support for IE11.
talawahdotnet 8y ago
IE 11 is the last browser with any substantial share that is no longer being actively developed (and automatically updated). As such the are a number of new features that get broad support in "evergreen" browsers that IE will never support. Most frameworks and developers end up bending over backwards to polyfill these features leading to more complex code and larger file sizes. Here are a few examples: ES6/ES2015 - https://caniuse.com/#search=ES6 https://caniuse.com/#search=ES6 Every other major browser supports this natively aside from IE, but most people still transpile their modern code down to ES5 + polyfills for compatibility CSS Variables - https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables Again, widely supported, but instead we use tools like SASS/LESS Web Components[1] (Shadow DOM[2] and Custom Elements[3]) Newer frameworks like Ionic 4 rely heavily and web components and see it as the future of all UI frameworks and the end of framework churn[4]. Once again IE 11 holds back the pack and has to be pollyfilled[5] 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components 2. https://caniuse.com/#feat=shadowdomv1 https://caniuse.com/#feat=shadowdomv1 3. https://caniuse.com/#feat=custom-elementsv1 https://caniuse.com/#feat=custom-elementsv1 4. https://blog.ionicframework.com/the-end-of-framework-churn/ https://blog.ionicframework.com/the-end-of-framework-churn/ 5. https://blog.ionicframework.com/october-2018-a-big-month-for-web-components/ https://blog.ionicframework.com/october-2018-a-big-month-for... Proxy - https://caniuse.com/#feat=proxy https://caniuse.com/#feat=proxy Vuejs is completely rewriting its observation mechanism[6] to be proxy-based in version 3, however it appears that cannot be polyfilled and so they will be providing a second, optional, not-fully-compatible build, specifically for IE 11[7] > Most of the ES2015 features used can be transpiled / polyfilled for IE11, with the exception for Proxies. Our plan is to implement an alternative observer with the same API, but using the good old ES5 Object.defineProperty API. A separate build of Vue 3.x will be distributed using this observer implementation. However, this build will be subject to the same change detection caveats of Vue 2.x and thus not fully compatible with the “modern” build of 3.x. We are aware that this imposes some inconvenience for library authors as they will need to be aware of compatibility for two different builds 6. https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteration-of-vue-js-777ffea6fabf#ba44 https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteratio... 7. https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteration-of-vue-js-777ffea6fabf#df62 https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteratio... Imagine the number of hours that could be saved globally if all this work and testing didn't have to happen anymore.

pier25 8y ago

Huh... JavaScript?

srgpqt 8y ago

https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs https://github.com/philipwalton/flexbugs

le-mark 8y ago

I've been on multi year projects to modernize old IE applications, and one of the things that IE11 misses is "standard" xpath evaluation. A lot of old "dhtml" apps were all in on soap/xml. There's some wierd IE only hold over css in it like cursor hand vs pointer. On the whole it's not too bad really. The reason why IE11 will live for a long, long time is it's compatability modes. You can run apps all the way back to IE7 on it. And yes these still exist.

chipperyman573 8y ago
>There's some wierd IE only hold over css in it like cursor hand vs pointer Wow, that would really frustrate me. One of the first things I do (or check to make sure it's done by whatever css library I'm using) is add a { cursor:pointer; } to my css file. The first time I tested a website in IE11, I would be pulling my hair out!! Or more likely I would google it, but still, it would be frustrating.

ivankolev 8y ago

For one it does not support css grid, which is really the best way to do layout atm.

baroffoos 8y ago
It also doesn't support flexbox very well. Had lots of issues with that a year ago.

TimTheTinker 8y ago

Here's a quick feature comparison between IE11 and the other major browsers: https://caniuse.com/#compare=ie+11,firefox+63,chrome+70,safari+12 https://caniuse.com/#compare=ie+11,firefox+63,chrome+70,safa... It's utterly depressing how many red "No"s there are in the left column next to green "Yes"s -- all the features we could use if we could merely drop support for IE11.

talawahdotnet 8y ago

IE 11 is the last browser with any substantial share that is no longer being actively developed (and automatically updated). As such the are a number of new features that get broad support in "evergreen" browsers that IE will never support. Most frameworks and developers end up bending over backwards to polyfill these features leading to more complex code and larger file sizes. Here are a few examples: ES6/ES2015 - https://caniuse.com/#search=ES6 https://caniuse.com/#search=ES6 Every other major browser supports this natively aside from IE, but most people still transpile their modern code down to ES5 + polyfills for compatibility CSS Variables - https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables https://caniuse.com/#feat=css-variables Again, widely supported, but instead we use tools like SASS/LESS Web Components[1] (Shadow DOM[2] and Custom Elements[3]) Newer frameworks like Ionic 4 rely heavily and web components and see it as the future of all UI frameworks and the end of framework churn[4]. Once again IE 11 holds back the pack and has to be pollyfilled[5] 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components 2. https://caniuse.com/#feat=shadowdomv1 https://caniuse.com/#feat=shadowdomv1 3. https://caniuse.com/#feat=custom-elementsv1 https://caniuse.com/#feat=custom-elementsv1 4. https://blog.ionicframework.com/the-end-of-framework-churn/ https://blog.ionicframework.com/the-end-of-framework-churn/ 5. https://blog.ionicframework.com/october-2018-a-big-month-for-web-components/ https://blog.ionicframework.com/october-2018-a-big-month-for... Proxy - https://caniuse.com/#feat=proxy https://caniuse.com/#feat=proxy Vuejs is completely rewriting its observation mechanism[6] to be proxy-based in version 3, however it appears that cannot be polyfilled and so they will be providing a second, optional, not-fully-compatible build, specifically for IE 11[7] > Most of the ES2015 features used can be transpiled / polyfilled for IE11, with the exception for Proxies. Our plan is to implement an alternative observer with the same API, but using the good old ES5 Object.defineProperty API. A separate build of Vue 3.x will be distributed using this observer implementation. However, this build will be subject to the same change detection caveats of Vue 2.x and thus not fully compatible with the “modern” build of 3.x. We are aware that this imposes some inconvenience for library authors as they will need to be aware of compatibility for two different builds 6. https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteration-of-vue-js-777ffea6fabf#ba44 https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteratio... 7. https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteration-of-vue-js-777ffea6fabf#df62 https://medium.com/the-vue-point/plans-for-the-next-iteratio... Imagine the number of hours that could be saved globally if all this work and testing didn't have to happen anymore.