5 ms·

Broken shit should die. And Edge was definitely broke. Safari is next, with 5% market. Chrome is the clear winner in the end.

saagarjha 8y ago
Edge and Safari are not broken.
- thrower123 8y ago
  The reality is that whatever google implements is the standard. If you don't comply you are an also-ran
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Sorry, what? Were you cut off there?
fourthark 8y ago
How was it broken? I only tested visualization stuff on it but it seemed to work pretty well. Honestly asking...
- nikkwong 8y ago
  It just depends on how far you're trying to push these browsers. Chrome has a lot of crazy cutting edge APIs which allow amazing developer and therefore user experiences. For example, IntersectionObserver, which allows developers to know when a part of a page is active, and respond accordingly; Safari doesn't even implement IntersectionObserver, even though it's been a standardized spec since like 2013. It might seem like minutiae, but, safari also doesn't pay any attention to SVG specs. This makes the pages I build for beaver [1] like, impossible. They work beautiful in chrome; but they don't work at all in safari; and because of that, I can't really explore what potential experiences pushing the limits on SVG might have for my clients. Whatever you build has to work in all clients. It's a sad state of affairs, because if safari wasn't so far dilapidated, I would have been able to build some really impressive experiences; but, without safari support it's a no-go. (1) www.beaver.digital
  - fourthark 8y ago
    Oh sure, I know. Often wondering if I should even try with Safari. I was trying to ask how Edge was broken.
    - nikkwong 8y ago
      I think if you're trying to browse sites like cnn or huff post it doesn't matter. It's really when you get into the metaweb and find developers trying to push the browsing experience you really yearn for more since non-chromium browsers are just so far behind when it comes to staying compatible with web specs. Safari has implemented many of the most important APIs, Edge, is missing many that have been defined and cemented for like a decade.
  - jancsika 8y ago
    what's currently broken in Safari wrt SVG?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Looks like Safari is finally making some progress on implementing this: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159475 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159475
  - alwillis 8y ago
    Intersection Observer is being developed for Safari/WebKit: https://webkit.org/status/#?search=intersection https://webkit.org/status/#?search=intersection
    - alwillis 8y ago
      Intersection Observer is on by default in Safari Technology Preview now: https://webkit.org/blog/8517/release-notes-for-safari-technology-preview-71/ https://webkit.org/blog/8517/release-notes-for-safari-techno...
- Dayshine 8y ago
  Well, if you want an example: The latest version of Edge broke the "FormData" constructor. So you can't manually create FormData to post from a set of elements not already in a form element together. And the failure is insidious, it would wipe the value, but still submit the key. Overwriting any previously saved data. Reported it three months ago, assigned to someone, no progress.
ravenstine 8y ago
Safari is broken on purpose in a lot of ways when it comes to security, for better or for worse. I've had to do a lot of workarounds for Safari to compensate for the restrictions on cross-origin frames even though the host allows for the origin in its CSP, just as an example. Then of course there's the lack of support for WebRTC and virtually no support for PWAs. As Apple doesn't really view itself as a software company, and because they value user privacy to some extent, I don't think they care about having Safari compete with the rest of the browser market. If Edge is broken, I can't really tell beyond what I think were some quirks still present when I was trying to target it last year. It wasn't that bad, but it didn't seem like Microsoft was making as big an effort towards it as they could have. What disappoints me is that, for reasons unknown, Microsoft didn't choose Gecko as its rendering engine, as it(and Firefox) could benefit from the extra attention and money from Microsoft. EDIT: I initially said "Spidermonkey" when I meant to say Gecko.
- thrower123 8y ago
  Safari is broken in ways that don't make sense if you don't live in apple land, so I can't bother with their mess for 5 or 6% of the total browser market Moreover, it's irrelevant to non apple people
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    > Safari is broken in ways that don't make sense if you don't live in apple land Are you equating "apple land" with increased privacy for your users, then disregarding it?
  - alwillis 8y ago
    Can’t believe web developers are willing to write-off over 2 billion Safari/WebKit users: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/12/apple-achieves-mission-impossible-of-reaching-2-billion-ios-device-shipments https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/12/apple-achieves-mi... This ain’t your father’s Safari web browser: https://webkit.org/status/#?status=under%20consideration,in%20development,supported%20in%20preview,supported https://webkit.org/status/#?status=under%20consideration,in%... There’s a lot of stuff that’s already supported in the released Safari and lots more stuff in development and being considered.
alwillis 8y ago
Certainly WebKit on iOS, macOS, and watchOS is much more than 5% of active web users. There are over 2 billion iOS devices and every browser on iOS—Firefox, Chrome, Brave—uses WebKit.
- kkarakk 8y ago
  not by choice
  - mr_toad 8y ago
    Even if iOS users had a real choice I suspect a lot of them wouldn’t bother changing the default browser.
- thrower123 8y ago
  People that have a choice don't use apple products. That is quite a condemnation in my eyes.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

saagarjha 8y ago

Edge and Safari are not broken.

thrower123 8y ago
The reality is that whatever google implements is the standard. If you don't comply you are an also-ran
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Sorry, what? Were you cut off there?

fourthark 8y ago

How was it broken? I only tested visualization stuff on it but it seemed to work pretty well. Honestly asking...

nikkwong 8y ago
It just depends on how far you're trying to push these browsers. Chrome has a lot of crazy cutting edge APIs which allow amazing developer and therefore user experiences. For example, IntersectionObserver, which allows developers to know when a part of a page is active, and respond accordingly; Safari doesn't even implement IntersectionObserver, even though it's been a standardized spec since like 2013. It might seem like minutiae, but, safari also doesn't pay any attention to SVG specs. This makes the pages I build for beaver [1] like, impossible. They work beautiful in chrome; but they don't work at all in safari; and because of that, I can't really explore what potential experiences pushing the limits on SVG might have for my clients. Whatever you build has to work in all clients. It's a sad state of affairs, because if safari wasn't so far dilapidated, I would have been able to build some really impressive experiences; but, without safari support it's a no-go. (1) www.beaver.digital
- fourthark 8y ago
  Oh sure, I know. Often wondering if I should even try with Safari. I was trying to ask how Edge was broken.
  - nikkwong 8y ago
    I think if you're trying to browse sites like cnn or huff post it doesn't matter. It's really when you get into the metaweb and find developers trying to push the browsing experience you really yearn for more since non-chromium browsers are just so far behind when it comes to staying compatible with web specs. Safari has implemented many of the most important APIs, Edge, is missing many that have been defined and cemented for like a decade.
- jancsika 8y ago
  what's currently broken in Safari wrt SVG?
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Looks like Safari is finally making some progress on implementing this: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159475 https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159475
- alwillis 8y ago
  Intersection Observer is being developed for Safari/WebKit: https://webkit.org/status/#?search=intersection https://webkit.org/status/#?search=intersection
  - alwillis 8y ago
    Intersection Observer is on by default in Safari Technology Preview now: https://webkit.org/blog/8517/release-notes-for-safari-technology-preview-71/ https://webkit.org/blog/8517/release-notes-for-safari-techno...
Dayshine 8y ago
Well, if you want an example: The latest version of Edge broke the "FormData" constructor. So you can't manually create FormData to post from a set of elements not already in a form element together. And the failure is insidious, it would wipe the value, but still submit the key. Overwriting any previously saved data. Reported it three months ago, assigned to someone, no progress.

ravenstine 8y ago

Safari is broken on purpose in a lot of ways when it comes to security, for better or for worse. I've had to do a lot of workarounds for Safari to compensate for the restrictions on cross-origin frames even though the host allows for the origin in its CSP, just as an example. Then of course there's the lack of support for WebRTC and virtually no support for PWAs. As Apple doesn't really view itself as a software company, and because they value user privacy to some extent, I don't think they care about having Safari compete with the rest of the browser market. If Edge is broken, I can't really tell beyond what I think were some quirks still present when I was trying to target it last year. It wasn't that bad, but it didn't seem like Microsoft was making as big an effort towards it as they could have. What disappoints me is that, for reasons unknown, Microsoft didn't choose Gecko as its rendering engine, as it(and Firefox) could benefit from the extra attention and money from Microsoft. EDIT: I initially said "Spidermonkey" when I meant to say Gecko.

thrower123 8y ago
Safari is broken in ways that don't make sense if you don't live in apple land, so I can't bother with their mess for 5 or 6% of the total browser market Moreover, it's irrelevant to non apple people
- saagarjha 8y ago
  > Safari is broken in ways that don't make sense if you don't live in apple land Are you equating "apple land" with increased privacy for your users, then disregarding it?
- alwillis 8y ago
  Can’t believe web developers are willing to write-off over 2 billion Safari/WebKit users: https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/12/apple-achieves-mission-impossible-of-reaching-2-billion-ios-device-shipments https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/09/12/apple-achieves-mi... This ain’t your father’s Safari web browser: https://webkit.org/status/#?status=under%20consideration,in%20development,supported%20in%20preview,supported https://webkit.org/status/#?status=under%20consideration,in%... There’s a lot of stuff that’s already supported in the released Safari and lots more stuff in development and being considered.

alwillis 8y ago

Certainly WebKit on iOS, macOS, and watchOS is much more than 5% of active web users. There are over 2 billion iOS devices and every browser on iOS—Firefox, Chrome, Brave—uses WebKit.

kkarakk 8y ago
not by choice
- mr_toad 8y ago
  Even if iOS users had a real choice I suspect a lot of them wouldn’t bother changing the default browser.
thrower123 8y ago
People that have a choice don't use apple products. That is quite a condemnation in my eyes.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]