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I must be in a bit of a minority but my main objection to these would be the installation of an app to use them - I am perhaps too privacy-conscious and admit I

I must be in a bit of a minority but my main objection to these would be the installation of an app to use them - I am perhaps too privacy-conscious and admit I haven't attempted the signup process but even with a throwaway email address, I'm not comfortable installing it on a device I take with me when I leave the house; I even Uber via the web interface and would probably stop using the service if they hamstrung that more than it is already. Is this something other HNers concern themselves with?

mixmastamyk 8y ago
If they were all on the same system I might consider it, but the are like a dozen transportation options in my town.
aantix 8y ago
Isn't it exhausting to live like that? Will convenience ever win out for you? This is a serious question.
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  It's a great question! It's honestly not too bad, although every now and again I flirt with throwing in the towel on account of the fact I'm sure I'm not really making a difference to the data collection at large. I browse with Firefox, an ad-blocker CookieAutoDelete and NoScript also, which sounds horrific, but actually works well (although I'm under no illusions that combined with routing my traffic through a VPS and browser fingerprinting are not hiding me at all). Browsing on ios with Firefox Focus is needlessly laborious also, but other than that I've found it to be fine.
  - kristianc 8y ago
    > I browse with Firefox, an ad-blocker CookieAutoDelete and NoScript also, which sounds horrific, but actually works well I’m interested by this as every time I have tried to browse with NoScript it has indeed been completely horrific.
    - 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
      It was a bit of a nightmare for the first day or two, but I was buoyed by seeing how many external tracking scripts are automatically loaded on websites that I never expected that from. It's largely seamless once you've whitelisted the things you like, but it takes a couple of days. One recent example where I packed it in and just used Safari instead was buying a flight - I've found airline websites to be finicky at the best of times and the added layer of non-standard browsing was immediately painful. Other than that, it's been worthwhile; I recommend giving it another try!
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > Isn't it exhausting to live like that? I always wonder why these kind of folks even bother to visit sites like this at all? Isn't this a tech focused site? Why are you here if you hate advancements in technology so much? It reminds me of all the bitter old curmudgeons on Slashdot back in the day. Every post about advancements in HDD storage or more memory had at least a few highly voted comments droning on about the dangers of bloat and why all anybody really needs is green screens. Articles on higher resolution monitors, or fancier TV's would always have a couple predictable upvoted comments wondering "why do we need all this extra resolution?" These kinds of comments really don't add anything to a discussion. They just bring a lot of negative energy. For some reason people always seem to upvote them--probably because they sound edgy or controversial. I just roll my eyes at the old grumps and move on with my life. The big danger is the site gets taken over by these kinds of grumpy people. Then the site starts a slow decline into irrelevance as the world passes it and all the people still using it by....
  - aantix 8y ago
    It's a discussion of tradeoffs, and the OP was happy to give me insight into his daily thinking on the topic. I appreciate him entertaining my questions and giving a sincere response.
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    I like tech. I like programming. Lots of the stuff I see here is quite cool. Liking tech does not mean disregarding privacy. In fact being enthusiastic about tech is almost required to seriously improve your privacy. A lot of the stuff here is cool open source projects and even the stuff like this thread is still worth talking about even if I wouldn't use the product myself. No point reading only posts and comments I agree with. Also even though I would never use this product for privacy reasons, I personally benefit from other people using it when the air I breathe doesn't kill me and I don't fear for my life while crossing a road.
  - hueving 8y ago
    Advancements in user tracking are not the same thing as general technology advancements. Apps that suck up location data deserve all of the flak they get.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Not really. Its the same as people who are vegetarian or people who ride a bike rather than take a car even when a car is so much more convenient for them or people who bring a refillable drink bottle rather than buy a disposable one. Some people are just really driven to support a cause and fight for something they know is right. If you don't feel strongly about this then thats ok but I think we are all better off that there are people who put the effort in to make society better even if it means personal inconvenience.
- ams6110 8y ago
  I find it liberating. When things are too convenient you tend to do a lot of worthless stuff. When there is a little bit of planning and difficulty involved, it helps prioritize. I don't have data on my mobile device either so I'm not sure I could even use the scooters.
- reacharavindh 8y ago
  I do the same. No Uber, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Twitter on the phone. If I need them, I use their web interface. If that is shitty, it makes me use them less, which is a desired outcome. Although, I admit I read too much HN than I'd like to spend time everyday because it feels like time spent on HN is some form of learning.
  - 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
    I have a similar view - there's some very smart people here!
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  Isn't it exhausting to live like that? Will convenience ever win out for you? My smartphone went bonkers and now only shows half of the screen, which makes it less than smart. I replaced it with a Nokia 8110 (the 4G model) and so far it's an intersting experience. While it might be a smidgeon less convenient it's far less attractive to immerse yourself into your phone while, for example, using public transport. The browser is fine for very basic things and you can get basic email to run. But in terms of distraction Snake can only give you so much. In essence I seem to gain a lot of time to observe my fellow citizens, read books or just stare out of the window and think some idle thoughts. In short: It seems I'm gaining a lot of time back by not being constantly distracted by what is essentially a slot machine with never ending possibilities. I'm sure it helps that I don't do social media. None! The phone provides a 4G hot spot in case I really need to connect a laptop if I must. Having dual sims it seems like quite an ideal thing to take on vacation. (It does GPS and Google Maps) How well will this work? I don't know yet. Right now I'm really not inclined to replace it, but time will tell. Is it exhausting? Well, no. Quite the opposite since there's no temptation for permanent distraction. Will convenience ever win out for you? I really don't feel too much inconvenienced. The acid test will probably checking in for flights (which should work with the minimal browser) or comparable tasks. Not being able to hire a scooter or use an Uber (which I anyway don't since I consider it a totally despicable company and there's no way I would ever trust them with my personal -, let alone location data) is pretty much a non-issue. So yeah, I tried to give you a serious answer.
- quickthrower2 8y ago
  But 10 years ago we all lived like that. Definitely 20.
- Lubnah 8y ago
  It is not at all exhausting. It's not even on the level of crossword puzzles. The only thing that gets tiresome is the realization that every company is trying to exhaust you. That the goal itself, is indeed, to wear you down. Once you realize that's the name of the game, you fight it differently.
- CyberDildonics 8y ago
  If something can be done through a web page, why is it being done through an app in the first place? Most of the time it is so that updates can be pushed and the app can be doing more than it really needs to do to deliver the service. For things like this, you just need to sign up and put in a little bit of info, but now you have to install and app that may or may not be hugely bloated, require permissions you it doesn't need, push updates frequently, etc.
BurningFrog 8y ago
Uber stores the route of your trip anyway. So all info you withhold from them is the few meters walk from where you ordered to where you got picked up.
- jliptzin 8y ago
  Probably stored indefinitely. Imagine 30 years from now, a company being able to go back and check on the current president's ride history when he was in his 20s.
  - 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
    This is exactly what I think, but I doubt I'd have articulated it so well. Who knows where that road leads?
  - baroffoos 8y ago
    > Imagine 30 years from now, a company Not just a company, the current state of things is every private company database will be hacked and leaked and available to the general public. Treat all data you give to someone else as public data now and use fake info where ever possible.
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  Well of course and you make a fine point, but I don't know what the app is up to when I'm not using it. And there was also the fiasco of them tracking after rides were completed [1]. I suppose what it comes down to is that we pour huge amounts of information into our phones and by extension, companies that don't necessarily have our best interests at heart, and any steps I can take to ameliorate that without a huge trade-off of inconvenience, I am all about doing. I don't know what my data will be worth in a few years! [1] - https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/29/16219542/uber-location-tracking-app-ios-android-privacy https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/29/16219542/uber-location-tr...
  - BurningFrog 8y ago
    OK, the "you never know factor" is hard to argue against.
andrepd 8y ago
I even Uber via the web interface Can you do this?? Thanks, I had no idea!
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  I haven't done it for a while, and I've only done it in New Zealand but yes! m.uber.com should get you there. The car display freezes on occasion, but they'll ring you if they're outside and you're not. Good luck, and you are so welcome!
- caro_douglos 8y ago
  Not sure about uber. Lyft has https://ride.lyft.com https://ride.lyft.com Still have to verify your account through phone
- eddieplan9 8y ago
  https://m.uber.com https://m.uber.com
- cyphar 8y ago
  Yes. https://m.uber.com/ https://m.uber.com/ For a really long time I chose to not have a smartphone so I would request an Uber using their web interface on my laptop.

mixmastamyk 8y ago

If they were all on the same system I might consider it, but the are like a dozen transportation options in my town.

aantix 8y ago

Isn't it exhausting to live like that? Will convenience ever win out for you? This is a serious question.

0xADEADBEE 8y ago
It's a great question! It's honestly not too bad, although every now and again I flirt with throwing in the towel on account of the fact I'm sure I'm not really making a difference to the data collection at large. I browse with Firefox, an ad-blocker CookieAutoDelete and NoScript also, which sounds horrific, but actually works well (although I'm under no illusions that combined with routing my traffic through a VPS and browser fingerprinting are not hiding me at all). Browsing on ios with Firefox Focus is needlessly laborious also, but other than that I've found it to be fine.
- kristianc 8y ago
  > I browse with Firefox, an ad-blocker CookieAutoDelete and NoScript also, which sounds horrific, but actually works well I’m interested by this as every time I have tried to browse with NoScript it has indeed been completely horrific.
  - 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
    It was a bit of a nightmare for the first day or two, but I was buoyed by seeing how many external tracking scripts are automatically loaded on websites that I never expected that from. It's largely seamless once you've whitelisted the things you like, but it takes a couple of days. One recent example where I packed it in and just used Safari instead was buying a flight - I've found airline websites to be finicky at the best of times and the added layer of non-standard browsing was immediately painful. Other than that, it's been worthwhile; I recommend giving it another try!
spookthesunset 8y ago
> Isn't it exhausting to live like that? I always wonder why these kind of folks even bother to visit sites like this at all? Isn't this a tech focused site? Why are you here if you hate advancements in technology so much? It reminds me of all the bitter old curmudgeons on Slashdot back in the day. Every post about advancements in HDD storage or more memory had at least a few highly voted comments droning on about the dangers of bloat and why all anybody really needs is green screens. Articles on higher resolution monitors, or fancier TV's would always have a couple predictable upvoted comments wondering "why do we need all this extra resolution?" These kinds of comments really don't add anything to a discussion. They just bring a lot of negative energy. For some reason people always seem to upvote them--probably because they sound edgy or controversial. I just roll my eyes at the old grumps and move on with my life. The big danger is the site gets taken over by these kinds of grumpy people. Then the site starts a slow decline into irrelevance as the world passes it and all the people still using it by....
- aantix 8y ago
  It's a discussion of tradeoffs, and the OP was happy to give me insight into his daily thinking on the topic. I appreciate him entertaining my questions and giving a sincere response.
- baroffoos 8y ago
  I like tech. I like programming. Lots of the stuff I see here is quite cool. Liking tech does not mean disregarding privacy. In fact being enthusiastic about tech is almost required to seriously improve your privacy. A lot of the stuff here is cool open source projects and even the stuff like this thread is still worth talking about even if I wouldn't use the product myself. No point reading only posts and comments I agree with. Also even though I would never use this product for privacy reasons, I personally benefit from other people using it when the air I breathe doesn't kill me and I don't fear for my life while crossing a road.
- hueving 8y ago
  Advancements in user tracking are not the same thing as general technology advancements. Apps that suck up location data deserve all of the flak they get.
baroffoos 8y ago
Not really. Its the same as people who are vegetarian or people who ride a bike rather than take a car even when a car is so much more convenient for them or people who bring a refillable drink bottle rather than buy a disposable one. Some people are just really driven to support a cause and fight for something they know is right. If you don't feel strongly about this then thats ok but I think we are all better off that there are people who put the effort in to make society better even if it means personal inconvenience.
ams6110 8y ago
I find it liberating. When things are too convenient you tend to do a lot of worthless stuff. When there is a little bit of planning and difficulty involved, it helps prioritize. I don't have data on my mobile device either so I'm not sure I could even use the scooters.
reacharavindh 8y ago
I do the same. No Uber, Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Twitter on the phone. If I need them, I use their web interface. If that is shitty, it makes me use them less, which is a desired outcome. Although, I admit I read too much HN than I'd like to spend time everyday because it feels like time spent on HN is some form of learning.
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  I have a similar view - there's some very smart people here!
CaptainZapp 8y ago
Isn't it exhausting to live like that? Will convenience ever win out for you? My smartphone went bonkers and now only shows half of the screen, which makes it less than smart. I replaced it with a Nokia 8110 (the 4G model) and so far it's an intersting experience. While it might be a smidgeon less convenient it's far less attractive to immerse yourself into your phone while, for example, using public transport. The browser is fine for very basic things and you can get basic email to run. But in terms of distraction Snake can only give you so much. In essence I seem to gain a lot of time to observe my fellow citizens, read books or just stare out of the window and think some idle thoughts. In short: It seems I'm gaining a lot of time back by not being constantly distracted by what is essentially a slot machine with never ending possibilities. I'm sure it helps that I don't do social media. None! The phone provides a 4G hot spot in case I really need to connect a laptop if I must. Having dual sims it seems like quite an ideal thing to take on vacation. (It does GPS and Google Maps) How well will this work? I don't know yet. Right now I'm really not inclined to replace it, but time will tell. Is it exhausting? Well, no. Quite the opposite since there's no temptation for permanent distraction. Will convenience ever win out for you? I really don't feel too much inconvenienced. The acid test will probably checking in for flights (which should work with the minimal browser) or comparable tasks. Not being able to hire a scooter or use an Uber (which I anyway don't since I consider it a totally despicable company and there's no way I would ever trust them with my personal -, let alone location data) is pretty much a non-issue. So yeah, I tried to give you a serious answer.
quickthrower2 8y ago
But 10 years ago we all lived like that. Definitely 20.
Lubnah 8y ago
It is not at all exhausting. It's not even on the level of crossword puzzles. The only thing that gets tiresome is the realization that every company is trying to exhaust you. That the goal itself, is indeed, to wear you down. Once you realize that's the name of the game, you fight it differently.
CyberDildonics 8y ago
If something can be done through a web page, why is it being done through an app in the first place? Most of the time it is so that updates can be pushed and the app can be doing more than it really needs to do to deliver the service. For things like this, you just need to sign up and put in a little bit of info, but now you have to install and app that may or may not be hugely bloated, require permissions you it doesn't need, push updates frequently, etc.

BurningFrog 8y ago

Uber stores the route of your trip anyway. So all info you withhold from them is the few meters walk from where you ordered to where you got picked up.

jliptzin 8y ago
Probably stored indefinitely. Imagine 30 years from now, a company being able to go back and check on the current president's ride history when he was in his 20s.
- 0xADEADBEE 8y ago
  This is exactly what I think, but I doubt I'd have articulated it so well. Who knows where that road leads?
- baroffoos 8y ago
  > Imagine 30 years from now, a company Not just a company, the current state of things is every private company database will be hacked and leaked and available to the general public. Treat all data you give to someone else as public data now and use fake info where ever possible.
0xADEADBEE 8y ago
Well of course and you make a fine point, but I don't know what the app is up to when I'm not using it. And there was also the fiasco of them tracking after rides were completed [1]. I suppose what it comes down to is that we pour huge amounts of information into our phones and by extension, companies that don't necessarily have our best interests at heart, and any steps I can take to ameliorate that without a huge trade-off of inconvenience, I am all about doing. I don't know what my data will be worth in a few years! [1] - https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/29/16219542/uber-location-tracking-app-ios-android-privacy https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/29/16219542/uber-location-tr...
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  OK, the "you never know factor" is hard to argue against.

andrepd 8y ago

I even Uber via the web interface Can you do this?? Thanks, I had no idea!

0xADEADBEE 8y ago
I haven't done it for a while, and I've only done it in New Zealand but yes! m.uber.com should get you there. The car display freezes on occasion, but they'll ring you if they're outside and you're not. Good luck, and you are so welcome!
caro_douglos 8y ago
Not sure about uber. Lyft has https://ride.lyft.com https://ride.lyft.com Still have to verify your account through phone
eddieplan9 8y ago
https://m.uber.com https://m.uber.com
cyphar 8y ago
Yes. https://m.uber.com/ https://m.uber.com/ For a really long time I chose to not have a smartphone so I would request an Uber using their web interface on my laptop.