6 ms·

MI6 chief questions China's role in UK tech sector

56 points by Sami_Lehtinen 8y ago

robbie78 8y ago
No word on social media and Brexit. People are still living in a dream state about what the real threat is . China and Russia sure can cause hurt here and there but in a hyperconnected economic order sooner or later they suffer too. Look at the yellow jacket movement in France. Nobody has any idea how to control that. That's the danger. To wake up one morning and find your house or business burnt done cause some group or the other has been triggered on social media.
- lsllc 8y ago
  This is the same mistake the Democrats in the US are continuing to make. They see Trump as an aberration, "Russia", "Cambridge Analytica" etc. But what they are not seeing is that something drove people to vote for Trump; something drove people to vote for BrExit, Catalonian independence. The same something that is making these people protest in France. That's the problem to be solved.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Neither the progressive populist faction nor the neoliberal moderate faction of the Democratic Party is making the mistake you charge; he Progressive populist faction was aimed at the problem before the Trump symptom had even fully manifested (not because it was fueling nationalism, but because they were concerned with the same underlying problems independently); the (decreasingly, but still) dominant neoliberal faction was certainly in denial about it until too late to prevent Trump, but when Hillary Clinton, as part of a discussion series on the rise of right-wing nationalist populism in Europe and the Americas says that Europe needs to curb immigration to cut off the fuel for nationalist populism, she's clearly focussed on the problem, whatever you think of her proposed solution.
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago
      Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. And the progressive wing's go-to is "they're racist". Those 4 states voted for Obama twice, how racist can they be?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. No, they didn’t both do that; the progressive populist faction, particularly, did not (the fact that the progressive faction was outperforming among constituencies like rural whites, both nationally and specifically in the Midwest, that were traditionally seen as more conservative, whereas the neoliberal faction’s strength was focussed in what were conventionally seen as progressive urban/coastal strongholds and minority constituencies was one of the most heavily reported surprises of the primary, and was a direct result of that.) The neoliberal faction won the primary and controlled general election strategy, controlling both the Presidential campaign and the DNC, sure, but it wasn't both factions ignoring the constituency you point to.
        yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Those white people certainly didn't think the progressive wing was listening to them. Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? If we're judging by the loudest opinions? What do their wives think about that, if the man happens to be the breadwinner?
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. Again, the progressive populist faction wasn't involved in the Presidential general election. So, yeah, all you are doing is pointing out that the neoliberal faction was ignoring the problem, which I said at the outset. > I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. Again, the progressive populist faction’s support from the demographic in question was one of the big stories of the primary (and one of the reasons Trump specifically targeted Sanders supporters—overtly and by name—in the general.) > What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? The progressive populist faction is the segment of the party least interested in (other maybe than economic class-based) identity politics.
  - sjg007 8y ago
    “It’s the economy stupid” (bill clinton) and a bunch of racists.
- metacritic12 8y ago
  I find it interesting that if you look at the top articles on HN mentioning China in a negative light, more often than in other articles, you'll get comments talking about: - How another country (the US usually) is even worse in many ways. - A change of topic from the article being mentioned. This is not an an ad-hom against the OP, for all I know he's a normal guy sitting right in my state. But just a pattern if you search other HN articles on China. Also, I don't get your middle sentence > Eventually China and Russia will hurt too. If China steals UK IP, how will China "eventually hurt", other than using the most roundabout logic?
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    China is notably not implicated in messing with the democracies on things like brexit or Trump. Which isn't to say they're saints -- they're just playing a longer game. As far as people who dare to defend China against being THE WORST... I mean, 1.4 billion people, some of them move to America and speak English. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. EDIT: More downvotes, please. Express your patriotism.
    - metacritic12 8y ago
      Right, but if there was a post about how the US is still polluting with a lot of coal, how often is the top post "But China..." Similarly, India has even more US immigrants, but look at the top critical articles on India. There's plenty of new evidence showing that China does engage in so-call "Sharp power" https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/21/one-of-americas-biggest-chinese-language-newspapers-toes-beijings-party-line-china-influence-united-front/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/21/one-of-americas-biggest... I think the proper policy is that HN users should upvote the sidetrack if they find that to be most interesting, and upvote the normal topic if they believe otherwise. I'm sure admins can take a look into both Russian, Chinese, or even corporate influencers, and find ways to scale down their impact, which the admins should. If they're real opinions of a 1:1 person, then that's fair.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
metacritic12 8y ago
I think the West is finally waking up to the rampant IP theft that China perpetrates, and how their growth is fueled by this. Regardless of what you say about Brexit or Trump, the part of the populism movement that resonates across the spectrum is that there have been a few state actors that have been taking advantage of the Washington-consensus world order. Democrats and Republicans alike, and Labour and Tories alike, are more or less in their dismay toward China and Russia. People across the west and the spectrum are waking up to the reality of how China grows.
- GreeniFi 8y ago
  I run a business at risk of IP theft and this worries me. But sometimes I also wonder if in reality IP is a fairly weak premise for a business (I know...sleepless nights this issue gives me), precisely because (1) it’s so easily stealable, and (2) a lot of cultures don’t really seem to view IP as property, which is a western-centric point of view. And then I think we’ve been mad in the West to construct economies on IP creation rather than manufacturing, just because, well, who will we sue?
  - sjg007 8y ago
    Well you sue the Chinese in the us and then seize Chinese us assets to pay damages or you get into a trade war...
    - GreeniFi 8y ago
      Haha.
  - guiriduro 8y ago
    IP theft is usually (but not always) a needless worry - at least it comes way behind proving a product:market fit. Being the best (aligned to your customer) source of a solution normally trumps being the only source. That said, some investors or specific highly competitive marketplaces may favour an IP-protected solution.
    - 8y ago

56 points by Sami_Lehtinen 8y ago

No word on social media and Brexit. People are still living in a dream state about what the real threat is . China and Russia sure can cause hurt here and there but in a hyperconnected economic order sooner or later they suffer too. Look at the yellow jacket movement in France. Nobody has any idea how to control that. That's the danger. To wake up one morning and find your house or business burnt done cause some group or the other has been triggered on social media.

lsllc 8y ago
This is the same mistake the Democrats in the US are continuing to make. They see Trump as an aberration, "Russia", "Cambridge Analytica" etc. But what they are not seeing is that something drove people to vote for Trump; something drove people to vote for BrExit, Catalonian independence. The same something that is making these people protest in France. That's the problem to be solved.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Neither the progressive populist faction nor the neoliberal moderate faction of the Democratic Party is making the mistake you charge; he Progressive populist faction was aimed at the problem before the Trump symptom had even fully manifested (not because it was fueling nationalism, but because they were concerned with the same underlying problems independently); the (decreasingly, but still) dominant neoliberal faction was certainly in denial about it until too late to prevent Trump, but when Hillary Clinton, as part of a discussion series on the rise of right-wing nationalist populism in Europe and the Americas says that Europe needs to curb immigration to cut off the fuel for nationalist populism, she's clearly focussed on the problem, whatever you think of her proposed solution.
  - yourbandsucks 8y ago
    Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin. And the progressive wing's go-to is "they're racist". Those 4 states voted for Obama twice, how racist can they be?
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Both factions completely ignored white Midwest people in 2016, though. No, they didn’t both do that; the progressive populist faction, particularly, did not (the fact that the progressive faction was outperforming among constituencies like rural whites, both nationally and specifically in the Midwest, that were traditionally seen as more conservative, whereas the neoliberal faction’s strength was focussed in what were conventionally seen as progressive urban/coastal strongholds and minority constituencies was one of the most heavily reported surprises of the primary, and was a direct result of that.) The neoliberal faction won the primary and controlled general election strategy, controlling both the Presidential campaign and the DNC, sure, but it wasn't both factions ignoring the constituency you point to.
      - yourbandsucks 8y ago
        Those white people certainly didn't think the progressive wing was listening to them. Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? If we're judging by the loudest opinions? What do their wives think about that, if the man happens to be the breadwinner?
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > Union guys went for Trump in the Midwest. Again, the progressive populist faction wasn't involved in the Presidential general election. So, yeah, all you are doing is pointing out that the neoliberal faction was ignoring the problem, which I said at the outset. > I recognize that you care about about them, but they didn't buy it from the overall party, and definitely not from the progressive wing. Again, the progressive populist faction’s support from the demographic in question was one of the big stories of the primary (and one of the reasons Trump specifically targeted Sanders supporters—overtly and by name—in the general.) > What's the default "progressive wing" opinion on white men? The progressive populist faction is the segment of the party least interested in (other maybe than economic class-based) identity politics.
- sjg007 8y ago
  “It’s the economy stupid” (bill clinton) and a bunch of racists.
metacritic12 8y ago
I find it interesting that if you look at the top articles on HN mentioning China in a negative light, more often than in other articles, you'll get comments talking about: - How another country (the US usually) is even worse in many ways. - A change of topic from the article being mentioned. This is not an an ad-hom against the OP, for all I know he's a normal guy sitting right in my state. But just a pattern if you search other HN articles on China. Also, I don't get your middle sentence > Eventually China and Russia will hurt too. If China steals UK IP, how will China "eventually hurt", other than using the most roundabout logic?
- yourbandsucks 8y ago
  China is notably not implicated in messing with the democracies on things like brexit or Trump. Which isn't to say they're saints -- they're just playing a longer game. As far as people who dare to defend China against being THE WORST... I mean, 1.4 billion people, some of them move to America and speak English. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. EDIT: More downvotes, please. Express your patriotism.
  - metacritic12 8y ago
    Right, but if there was a post about how the US is still polluting with a lot of coal, how often is the top post "But China..." Similarly, India has even more US immigrants, but look at the top critical articles on India. There's plenty of new evidence showing that China does engage in so-call "Sharp power" https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/21/one-of-americas-biggest-chinese-language-newspapers-toes-beijings-party-line-china-influence-united-front/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/12/21/one-of-americas-biggest... I think the proper policy is that HN users should upvote the sidetrack if they find that to be most interesting, and upvote the normal topic if they believe otherwise. I'm sure admins can take a look into both Russian, Chinese, or even corporate influencers, and find ways to scale down their impact, which the admins should. If they're real opinions of a 1:1 person, then that's fair.
    - yourbandsucks 8y ago

metacritic12 8y ago

I think the West is finally waking up to the rampant IP theft that China perpetrates, and how their growth is fueled by this. Regardless of what you say about Brexit or Trump, the part of the populism movement that resonates across the spectrum is that there have been a few state actors that have been taking advantage of the Washington-consensus world order. Democrats and Republicans alike, and Labour and Tories alike, are more or less in their dismay toward China and Russia. People across the west and the spectrum are waking up to the reality of how China grows.

GreeniFi 8y ago
I run a business at risk of IP theft and this worries me. But sometimes I also wonder if in reality IP is a fairly weak premise for a business (I know...sleepless nights this issue gives me), precisely because (1) it’s so easily stealable, and (2) a lot of cultures don’t really seem to view IP as property, which is a western-centric point of view. And then I think we’ve been mad in the West to construct economies on IP creation rather than manufacturing, just because, well, who will we sue?
- sjg007 8y ago
  Well you sue the Chinese in the us and then seize Chinese us assets to pay damages or you get into a trade war...
  - GreeniFi 8y ago
    Haha.
- guiriduro 8y ago
  IP theft is usually (but not always) a needless worry - at least it comes way behind proving a product:market fit. Being the best (aligned to your customer) source of a solution normally trumps being the only source. That said, some investors or specific highly competitive marketplaces may favour an IP-protected solution.
  - 8y ago