5 ms·

What about all the cars littered on the sides of the street? Don't you have to walk around those too?

cortesoft 8y ago
No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. I mean, in Santa Monica if you are 1 minute late past the time on the sign you will get towed. The cars are parked in designated spots on the road, with all sorts of rules about how long and how much you have to pay for the spot. In Santa Monica, pretty much every available parking spot has a meter that means you have to pay to park there, and are limited in how long you can park there. Now, we can have all sorts of public policy debates about how much of a city's public space should be dedicated to parking spots, but at least the public had a say in the policy and at least there IS a policy. We just need rules around where you can park the scooters and for how long, and how much you have to pay to use the public space to park your scooter.
- SamReidHughes 8y ago
  If the argument for parking is that it's democratically decided, then being able to leave scooters around wherever is also democratically decided. Santa Monica could pass a scooter law whenever it wants to. They don't have a policy on nose-picking or walking without looking where you're going either. The actual basis of your complaint is that you like parking, but you don't like scooters being put wherever.
  - cortesoft 8y ago
    No, my entire point has been that we need laws about where scooters are parked. I think it is a bit unfair to say we have democratically decided to let scooters park everywhere simply by the fact that we haven't yet passed any laws about where they can park; the law is slow to move, and the scooter parking issue is pretty new. Before Bird and Lime, there were not enough scooters around to be a big enough problem where we needed a law. Now we do, but the law is slow to change. In the mean time, it is pretty annoying.
    - scarejunba 8y ago
      We've democratically decided to allow people to use the new iPhone X. Scooters are the same.
      - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
        Your use of a phone does not fundamentally devalue the public commons. Dumping private property on public lands, and expecting the citizens to respect what amounts to abandoned property is absurd. This is a level 100 class of "Tragedy of the commons". And with enough scooters, the very act of going somewhere on a scooter will be blocked by corporate trash.... Err, limes and birds.
        scarejunba 8y ago
        Sure it does. Spectrum is a common resource. That's why it's hard to take a call in a stadium. And we let people bring their phones there. Besides, dumping private property on public land is what parking cars is. I'm comfortable outlawing this if we outlaw all street parking as well.
- landryraccoon 8y ago
  > No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. This is disingenuous. It ignores all the externalities of car friendly cities that you're taking for granted. Busy streets are wider with more lanes, crosswalks are more inconvenient and take longer to cross. Half of the width of narrow streets is dominated by parking, not to mention all of the unsightly lots and parking garages. Scooters don't cost millions/billions in real estate for parking. They can't use and don't require expensive freeway onramps. They don't cause massive congestion and the corresponding drop in local air quality. All in all I think if you want to compare externalities, scooters win by far over cars, and it's not even close.
torgian 8y ago
You must have lived in China. Cars always on the sidewalk

No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. I mean, in Santa Monica if you are 1 minute late past the time on the sign you will get towed. The cars are parked in designated spots on the road, with all sorts of rules about how long and how much you have to pay for the spot. In Santa Monica, pretty much every available parking spot has a meter that means you have to pay to park there, and are limited in how long you can park there. Now, we can have all sorts of public policy debates about how much of a city's public space should be dedicated to parking spots, but at least the public had a say in the policy and at least there IS a policy. We just need rules around where you can park the scooters and for how long, and how much you have to pay to use the public space to park your scooter.

SamReidHughes 8y ago
If the argument for parking is that it's democratically decided, then being able to leave scooters around wherever is also democratically decided. Santa Monica could pass a scooter law whenever it wants to. They don't have a policy on nose-picking or walking without looking where you're going either. The actual basis of your complaint is that you like parking, but you don't like scooters being put wherever.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  No, my entire point has been that we need laws about where scooters are parked. I think it is a bit unfair to say we have democratically decided to let scooters park everywhere simply by the fact that we haven't yet passed any laws about where they can park; the law is slow to move, and the scooter parking issue is pretty new. Before Bird and Lime, there were not enough scooters around to be a big enough problem where we needed a law. Now we do, but the law is slow to change. In the mean time, it is pretty annoying.
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    We've democratically decided to allow people to use the new iPhone X. Scooters are the same.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      Your use of a phone does not fundamentally devalue the public commons. Dumping private property on public lands, and expecting the citizens to respect what amounts to abandoned property is absurd. This is a level 100 class of "Tragedy of the commons". And with enough scooters, the very act of going somewhere on a scooter will be blocked by corporate trash.... Err, limes and birds.
      - scarejunba 8y ago
        Sure it does. Spectrum is a common resource. That's why it's hard to take a call in a stadium. And we let people bring their phones there. Besides, dumping private property on public land is what parking cars is. I'm comfortable outlawing this if we outlaw all street parking as well.
landryraccoon 8y ago
> No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. This is disingenuous. It ignores all the externalities of car friendly cities that you're taking for granted. Busy streets are wider with more lanes, crosswalks are more inconvenient and take longer to cross. Half of the width of narrow streets is dominated by parking, not to mention all of the unsightly lots and parking garages. Scooters don't cost millions/billions in real estate for parking. They can't use and don't require expensive freeway onramps. They don't cause massive congestion and the corresponding drop in local air quality. All in all I think if you want to compare externalities, scooters win by far over cars, and it's not even close.

torgian 8y ago

You must have lived in China. Cars always on the sidewalk