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I have spent a lot of time observing this phenomenon in Venice; here are some of my thoughts. What these scooters have done for SM-Venice is, they’ve gotten pe

by numair 8y ago

I have spent a lot of time observing this phenomenon in Venice; here are some of my thoughts. What these scooters have done for SM-Venice is, they’ve gotten people to park farther away and spend less time in cars. Especially the tourists. What does that mean for locals? Well, for one, it means that the nuisance of having to drive slow past people on these things, rather than the nightmare of sitting in standstill traffic if all of those people were in cars instead. Summer traffic in Venice was definitely helped by the scooters, as they replaced a bit of car traffic. These “short haul mobility vehicles” make it much easier for larger groups of people to engage in a large, spread-out, mostly-pedestrian area. They’re completely dorky and I’ll never be caught dead on one... but, at the same time, there’s serious benefits to us all that these things exist. There’s definitely problems (not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of public schools, such as Venice High, and there’s something very Idiocracy-esque in watching them being used by people who would benefit from walking), but I find it to be an overall net-positive. I’m interested to see where the next form factors go, and how these things factor into future urban planning decisions. Especially within geofenced environments where you don’t have to pay for them, they just exist. There’s a lot to ponder here.

xenihn 8y ago
Being in an accident involving one owned by Bird/Lime/Uber seems like a legal/insurance nightmare, whether you're a pedestrian, rider, or driver.
- lingzb 8y ago
  Yes, but there's the same risk with conventional bikes on streets today. And cities like San Francisco agree - they are making it legal for adults to ride electric scooters _without_ helmets so that it matches regulation around bicycle helmets: https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/21/17884220/bird-lime-scooters-rules-helmets-california https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/21/17884220/bird-lime-scooters-...
  - the_clarence 8y ago
    You still need a freaking driver license. They are completely pro-cars
  - NatW 8y ago
    > the same risk with conventional bikes I think the scooters are riskier in some ways. My experience is with bikes you can easily take one hand off the bike to signal a turn - what your traffic intention is. But with the scooters, it's not really possible to take your hands off the handlebars (you lose control!), and there is currently no blinker control to indicate your traffic intention. I wanted to take a left-turn on a scooter recently and this was an issue. I got honked-at. I think they should add blinker light controls to the handlebars.
    - mnx 8y ago
      Yes! This is a major issue even in moderate traffic. They could probably adapt the under-side lights to function as turn signals. The scooters are just too narrow to drive one-handed.
    - jobigoud 8y ago
      Could you drive one footed and extend the other leg? Sorry I've never ridden a scooter. But you can ride a skateboard on one foot for short periods with some training.
jayd16 8y ago
>not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of public schools Kids treat them like shit but what is there to do?
- pandesmos 8y ago
  This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s like they exist in large part as an almost “parasite” on the good will of nice communities where they won’t be stolen or chopped up for parts. They’re here to make money for a private company. In a public park or at the public library it’s easy to say: “this is here for our community, by our community, you need to take care of it because we’re all in this together.” These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them?
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    > These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them? This is pretty much the same argument as people who litter at ball games and then say "The cleaning crew will pick it up. That's their job."
    - pandesmos 8y ago
      Maybe, and maybe that's part of why it's bothering me. I don't have a frame in which to easily sit it. I think that's a good analogy, but it's not quite right imo. The important factor for me is that, in this specific case the distributor (or whoever is putting them out) is placing them directly in front of a school. Potential consumers of the service are socially expected to do work to maintain something they didn't put there or ask for and it's being purposefully placed in more naturally risky location. Or they're being placed in a way that's not very nice to others (blocking sidewalks or bike racks). In the ball game scenario the consumer has chosen to get popcorn, made a mess (either purposefully or accidentally) and then chosen to leave it for others to take care of. So the consumer is being personally irresponsible. My interpretation is that the scooter companies are being personally irresponsible, but then sort of making it look/feel like the potential consumers are being irresponsible? You put your backpack in the main walkway of the airport. I tripped over it. Things spilled out of the backpack. Should I feel bad and try and pick up those things? Does that answer change if I see you doing the same thing every single Wednesday when I fly out?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
davelondon 8y ago
> I have spent a lot of time observing this phenomenon in Venice For half a second I had this vision of Lime jet-skis piling up and blocking the canals of Venice, Italy.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  Oh that's not what he meant? I was a bit surprised that the company had expanded to Italy. Is it Venice LA then, or somewhere else?
  - pecanpie 8y ago
    Yes, it's Venice, Los Angeles. When he says "SM-Venice", he means Santa Monica / Venice. Incidentally, I was in Venice Beach a few weeks ago, and I too witnessed that the scooters are very popular down there, and becoming enough of a fixture that you hear things shouted on the street like "hey, that's my Lime" when someone breaches etiquette and takes a scooter that someone else has just parked and intends to use again right away.
ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
>>They’re completely dorky and I’ll never be caught dead on one Sorry for asking, but are you thirteen?
- criagsbkbk 8y ago
  Personal swipes aren't allowed here. FYI
  - ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
    This is not a personal swipe, just a sarcastic remark on a tactless and judgemental comment.
    - mbel 8y ago
      I would say it's the other way around. You made a tactless and judgemental comment on a sarcastic remark.
      - ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
        I ride kick scooter almost daily on my commute and can't find anything sarcastic about calling it "completely dorky", sorry. I've also gotten used to not hear (or make) such comments in my adult life, contrary to the school years, where it was a norm of communication, unfortunately.
- 6cd6beb 8y ago
  I'm in my early thirties and feel the same way. A lot of people do. Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do that because it would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do.
  - ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
    >> Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do that because it would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do. And its exactly a moment when one should stop for a second and ask him/herself a question "why would I feel so"? Wearing glasses, reading books, dyeing hair with some tint, preferring pieces of clothing of some fashion or other, riding a personal vehicle that is supposedly beneficial for ecology (at least at the level of common knowledge) AND evidently improving quality of urban life - all of that shouldn't be embarrassing, or "completely" "socially inept"[1]. Wearing dirty clothes when you have the means not to or not looking after your hygiene should (and I can't really recall anything else at a moment's notice). https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky
zjaffee 8y ago
So I also had the chance to observe them in Venice, and I don't know if I agree with the premise that they are actually getting people to park further away, people are however, taking less cars between the beach front areas within LA for sure. At least for me, there was a clear before and after moment, where you suddenly saw far more people on your block in Venice riding around drunk on scooters all the time, where as before, you hardly saw anyone. This said, I use them all the time, Venice is a bitch to find parking in, and the neighborhood is just spread out enough where you need a vehicle to get around. Before it would've been a huge pain to grab breakfast at Gusta, head into ocean park for some shopping and then head on down to Washington to spend some time near the pier all before noon.

by numair 8y ago

xenihn 8y ago

Being in an accident involving one owned by Bird/Lime/Uber seems like a legal/insurance nightmare, whether you're a pedestrian, rider, or driver.

lingzb 8y ago
Yes, but there's the same risk with conventional bikes on streets today. And cities like San Francisco agree - they are making it legal for adults to ride electric scooters _without_ helmets so that it matches regulation around bicycle helmets: https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/21/17884220/bird-lime-scooters-rules-helmets-california https://la.curbed.com/2018/9/21/17884220/bird-lime-scooters-...
- the_clarence 8y ago
  You still need a freaking driver license. They are completely pro-cars
- NatW 8y ago
  > the same risk with conventional bikes I think the scooters are riskier in some ways. My experience is with bikes you can easily take one hand off the bike to signal a turn - what your traffic intention is. But with the scooters, it's not really possible to take your hands off the handlebars (you lose control!), and there is currently no blinker control to indicate your traffic intention. I wanted to take a left-turn on a scooter recently and this was an issue. I got honked-at. I think they should add blinker light controls to the handlebars.
  - mnx 8y ago
    Yes! This is a major issue even in moderate traffic. They could probably adapt the under-side lights to function as turn signals. The scooters are just too narrow to drive one-handed.
  - jobigoud 8y ago
    Could you drive one footed and extend the other leg? Sorry I've never ridden a scooter. But you can ride a skateboard on one foot for short periods with some training.

jayd16 8y ago

>not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of public schools Kids treat them like shit but what is there to do?

pandesmos 8y ago
This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s like they exist in large part as an almost “parasite” on the good will of nice communities where they won’t be stolen or chopped up for parts. They’re here to make money for a private company. In a public park or at the public library it’s easy to say: “this is here for our community, by our community, you need to take care of it because we’re all in this together.” These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them?
- scarejunba 8y ago
  > These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them? This is pretty much the same argument as people who litter at ball games and then say "The cleaning crew will pick it up. That's their job."
  - pandesmos 8y ago
    Maybe, and maybe that's part of why it's bothering me. I don't have a frame in which to easily sit it. I think that's a good analogy, but it's not quite right imo. The important factor for me is that, in this specific case the distributor (or whoever is putting them out) is placing them directly in front of a school. Potential consumers of the service are socially expected to do work to maintain something they didn't put there or ask for and it's being purposefully placed in more naturally risky location. Or they're being placed in a way that's not very nice to others (blocking sidewalks or bike racks). In the ball game scenario the consumer has chosen to get popcorn, made a mess (either purposefully or accidentally) and then chosen to leave it for others to take care of. So the consumer is being personally irresponsible. My interpretation is that the scooter companies are being personally irresponsible, but then sort of making it look/feel like the potential consumers are being irresponsible? You put your backpack in the main walkway of the airport. I tripped over it. Things spilled out of the backpack. Should I feel bad and try and pick up those things? Does that answer change if I see you doing the same thing every single Wednesday when I fly out?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

davelondon 8y ago

> I have spent a lot of time observing this phenomenon in Venice For half a second I had this vision of Lime jet-skis piling up and blocking the canals of Venice, Italy.

StavrosK 8y ago
Oh that's not what he meant? I was a bit surprised that the company had expanded to Italy. Is it Venice LA then, or somewhere else?
- pecanpie 8y ago
  Yes, it's Venice, Los Angeles. When he says "SM-Venice", he means Santa Monica / Venice. Incidentally, I was in Venice Beach a few weeks ago, and I too witnessed that the scooters are very popular down there, and becoming enough of a fixture that you hear things shouted on the street like "hey, that's my Lime" when someone breaches etiquette and takes a scooter that someone else has just parked and intends to use again right away.

ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago

>>They’re completely dorky and I’ll never be caught dead on one Sorry for asking, but are you thirteen?

criagsbkbk 8y ago
Personal swipes aren't allowed here. FYI
- ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
  This is not a personal swipe, just a sarcastic remark on a tactless and judgemental comment.
  - mbel 8y ago
    I would say it's the other way around. You made a tactless and judgemental comment on a sarcastic remark.
    - ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
      I ride kick scooter almost daily on my commute and can't find anything sarcastic about calling it "completely dorky", sorry. I've also gotten used to not hear (or make) such comments in my adult life, contrary to the school years, where it was a norm of communication, unfortunately.
6cd6beb 8y ago
I'm in my early thirties and feel the same way. A lot of people do. Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do that because it would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do.
- ZoomZoomZoom 8y ago
  >> Looking at something and saying "I don't think I would do that because it would be very embarrassing" is a thing adults can do. And its exactly a moment when one should stop for a second and ask him/herself a question "why would I feel so"? Wearing glasses, reading books, dyeing hair with some tint, preferring pieces of clothing of some fashion or other, riding a personal vehicle that is supposedly beneficial for ecology (at least at the level of common knowledge) AND evidently improving quality of urban life - all of that shouldn't be embarrassing, or "completely" "socially inept"[1]. Wearing dirty clothes when you have the means not to or not looking after your hygiene should (and I can't really recall anything else at a moment's notice). https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/dorky

zjaffee 8y ago

So I also had the chance to observe them in Venice, and I don't know if I agree with the premise that they are actually getting people to park further away, people are however, taking less cars between the beach front areas within LA for sure. At least for me, there was a clear before and after moment, where you suddenly saw far more people on your block in Venice riding around drunk on scooters all the time, where as before, you hardly saw anyone. This said, I use them all the time, Venice is a bitch to find parking in, and the neighborhood is just spread out enough where you need a vehicle to get around. Before it would've been a huge pain to grab breakfast at Gusta, head into ocean park for some shopping and then head on down to Washington to spend some time near the pier all before noon.