4 ms·

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies,

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

nullorundefined 8y ago
3 months? Wow. Definitely not, then. Especially considering that cars drive around every night to pick them up, charge them, and drop them off again.
qudat 8y ago
> People drive them on the sidewalks Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year. If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let these fake bike lanes fool you.
- sonofaplum 8y ago
  Vehicles that move faster than pedestrians should go on the road, like bicycles do. As a bike rider, its a vastly superior option that going on the sidewalk.
  - anonytrary 8y ago
    In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars), medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the medium and slow lanes. They go up to 15 MPH, which is the run-speed of a human. Should runners be on the bike lane? I don't think so.
    - xur17 8y ago
      > In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars), medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the medium and slow lanes. And to be clear 'bike lane' != road shoulder with a bike painted on it. A bike lane should have at least some amount of separation from the road in the same way that sidewalks are separated. I'm hopeful that the popularity of scooters speeds up the adoption of medium speed lanes.
    - sonofaplum 8y ago
      runners have a much better stopping speed than bicycles, and also don't have sharp metal or carbon fiber frames that can hurt pedestrians :) Also 15 mph is a sub 4:20 mile, and for most people will be pretty close to a flat out sprint. Not super adviseable on sidewalks either. Most joggers will be going half that speed. walking, 3mph running at an 9 min mile 6.5mph
- baroffoos 8y ago
  All roads without separated tracks for cyclists/scooters should be limited to 30-40km/h
- tuxxy 8y ago
  The sidewalk is a far more statistically dangerous place for cyclists (and scooters, by extension). Here's an FAQ from Cornell on this: http://www.bike.cornell.edu/pdfs/Sidewalk_biking_FAQ.pdf http://www.bike.cornell.edu/pdfs/Sidewalk_biking_FAQ.pdf
  - ryanwaggoner 8y ago
    That certainly doesn’t show that it’s far more dangerous. In every scenario listed, a minority of motorist / cyclist accidents at intersections involved a cyclist on the sidewalk. Meaning that the majority of such accidents occurred where the cyclist was not on the sidewalk. We actually don’t have enough info from that to say which is safer. If 99% of cyclists ride in the sidewalk, but the 1% who don’t make up more than half the accidents, I’d say riding on the sidewalk is far safer. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusion. I just don’t like the use of faux data to show a conclusion that feels right. 98% of kids with autism were vaccinated in the prior three years!
woah 8y ago
That’s a pretty shortsighted opinion. The big problem here is that our cities are structured so that you have to move several tons of metal around to go more than a few blocks. Being angry about a better alternative instead of the lack of infrastructure is just crotchety.
- sonofaplum 8y ago
  I put in my disclaimer out of sense of honesty. I'm a bike rider, I don't like cars either. As you can see however, my question is whether electric scooters with a three month lifespan can come out ahead in environmental savings.
  - nroets 8y ago
    I toured the US with my bicycle for 5 months this year on a Walmart bikes. Each one lasted only 1 month (1000 miles) before it developed serious mechanical problems like broken spokes. But it was much more economical than an expensive touring bicycle: For example, every time I flew domestically, it was very expensive to take it as checked luggage. So I left it at the airport and bought a new one at the other side. A bicycle (or a scooter) weighs a fraction of a car, so even if I replace it frequently, it uses much less raw materials per mile, especially if you include the fossil fuels consumed. I never rode a bird, but I was sad when I saw the cops banning them from Venice beach in August. Hopefully the city will embrace the new technology and build enough (shared) infrastructure (bike lanes / sidewalks).
monksy 8y ago
Sounds like they're leaving trash at your door. Get an angle grinder and then dump it in the trash.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
zeendo 8y ago
I'm also a cyclist but am pro-scooter...but, yes, I found that super disturbing. In fairness, the lifespan is 4 months. 3 months of profitability. Either way, it sounds crazy wasteful. Obvious questions arise (and answers are alluded to in the article): How much of old scooters are reclaimed? Obviously some scooters are stolen / utterly destroyed...but for the ones that break down, is some percentage re-used? Also, are there planned improvements to the lifespan? These companies have been operating for a crazy short amount of time considering their growth...so hopefully they can improve this as they bring the scooter design in-house.
the_clarence 8y ago
Fuck cars

nullorundefined 8y ago

3 months? Wow. Definitely not, then. Especially considering that cars drive around every night to pick them up, charge them, and drop them off again.

qudat 8y ago

> People drive them on the sidewalks Where else would they drive them? On the road? They would just contribute to the thousands of cyclists that die or are seriously injured every year. If you are suggesting that every electric vehicle be banned because sidewalks are for pedestrians only then I disagree. Streets are for cars only, don't let these fake bike lanes fool you.

sonofaplum 8y ago
Vehicles that move faster than pedestrians should go on the road, like bicycles do. As a bike rider, its a vastly superior option that going on the sidewalk.
- anonytrary 8y ago
  In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars), medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the medium and slow lanes. They go up to 15 MPH, which is the run-speed of a human. Should runners be on the bike lane? I don't think so.
  - xur17 8y ago
    > In more developed areas, there are three options. Fast (main road for cars), medium (bike lane) and slow (sidewalks). I'd imagine birds would ride in the medium and slow lanes. And to be clear 'bike lane' != road shoulder with a bike painted on it. A bike lane should have at least some amount of separation from the road in the same way that sidewalks are separated. I'm hopeful that the popularity of scooters speeds up the adoption of medium speed lanes.
  - sonofaplum 8y ago
    runners have a much better stopping speed than bicycles, and also don't have sharp metal or carbon fiber frames that can hurt pedestrians :) Also 15 mph is a sub 4:20 mile, and for most people will be pretty close to a flat out sprint. Not super adviseable on sidewalks either. Most joggers will be going half that speed. walking, 3mph running at an 9 min mile 6.5mph
baroffoos 8y ago
All roads without separated tracks for cyclists/scooters should be limited to 30-40km/h
tuxxy 8y ago
The sidewalk is a far more statistically dangerous place for cyclists (and scooters, by extension). Here's an FAQ from Cornell on this: http://www.bike.cornell.edu/pdfs/Sidewalk_biking_FAQ.pdf http://www.bike.cornell.edu/pdfs/Sidewalk_biking_FAQ.pdf
- ryanwaggoner 8y ago
  That certainly doesn’t show that it’s far more dangerous. In every scenario listed, a minority of motorist / cyclist accidents at intersections involved a cyclist on the sidewalk. Meaning that the majority of such accidents occurred where the cyclist was not on the sidewalk. We actually don’t have enough info from that to say which is safer. If 99% of cyclists ride in the sidewalk, but the 1% who don’t make up more than half the accidents, I’d say riding on the sidewalk is far safer. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusion. I just don’t like the use of faux data to show a conclusion that feels right. 98% of kids with autism were vaccinated in the prior three years!

woah 8y ago

That’s a pretty shortsighted opinion. The big problem here is that our cities are structured so that you have to move several tons of metal around to go more than a few blocks. Being angry about a better alternative instead of the lack of infrastructure is just crotchety.

sonofaplum 8y ago
I put in my disclaimer out of sense of honesty. I'm a bike rider, I don't like cars either. As you can see however, my question is whether electric scooters with a three month lifespan can come out ahead in environmental savings.
- nroets 8y ago
  I toured the US with my bicycle for 5 months this year on a Walmart bikes. Each one lasted only 1 month (1000 miles) before it developed serious mechanical problems like broken spokes. But it was much more economical than an expensive touring bicycle: For example, every time I flew domestically, it was very expensive to take it as checked luggage. So I left it at the airport and bought a new one at the other side. A bicycle (or a scooter) weighs a fraction of a car, so even if I replace it frequently, it uses much less raw materials per mile, especially if you include the fossil fuels consumed. I never rode a bird, but I was sad when I saw the cops banning them from Venice beach in August. Hopefully the city will embrace the new technology and build enough (shared) infrastructure (bike lanes / sidewalks).

monksy 8y ago

Sounds like they're leaving trash at your door. Get an angle grinder and then dump it in the trash.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

zeendo 8y ago

I'm also a cyclist but am pro-scooter...but, yes, I found that super disturbing. In fairness, the lifespan is 4 months. 3 months of profitability. Either way, it sounds crazy wasteful. Obvious questions arise (and answers are alluded to in the article): How much of old scooters are reclaimed? Obviously some scooters are stolen / utterly destroyed...but for the ones that break down, is some percentage re-used? Also, are there planned improvements to the lifespan? These companies have been operating for a crazy short amount of time considering their growth...so hopefully they can improve this as they bring the scooter design in-house.

the_clarence 8y ago

Fuck cars