5 ms·

Why, is gender arbitrary? There are albino blacks, blonde latinos, etc.

EpicEng 8y ago
Sure there are, and all of those things are determined by biology, not choice. That said, this is a topic that could go off the rails and sideways very quickly...
happytoexplain 8y ago
It's my (extremely outside) understanding that the concepts of physical/genetic/choose-something-objective gender are not what people mean in these conversations - nor are they referring to the subjective identity of what kinds of people one feels sexually attracted to. They are referring to a third thing, also subjective, best described as "what gender you feel like", which is very much like how old or young you feel, except much more closely related to one's identity (I "feel" young, which is great, but I also "feel" male, which is more than great - it's critically important to my self identity). So, both of these things (age and gender) have subjective and objectives measures - the difference is that "years old", which term the law uses, is patently objective both legally and linguistically, whereas on the other hand "male/female/etc", which terms the law also uses, is less objective linguistically (as described above), and therefore there is at least one basis on which you could argue for a legal change of gender - a basis that does not exist for a change-of-age argument.
- war1025 8y ago
  As much as anything, this comes down to societal gender roles and a desire not to conform with the ones you've been assigned. In a different culture, it could simply come down to "piss off and I'll do what I want", but we live in a time and place where labels very much matter to people, and they want to be able to pick labels that mean what they would like.
- knicholes 8y ago
  I've always wondered how someone knows how a man feels or how a woman feels. All I know is how I feel. How am I to determine that the way I feel is the way everyone who identifies as women feel, or the way everyone who identifies as men feel? Certainly there's a continuum where rarely do two individuals feel exactly the same.
war1025 8y ago
Because it's socially popular for it to be, so the goalposts will be moved wherever they need to be for it to be true.
- happytoexplain 8y ago
  This is pretty dismissive and simplistic. You should read my sibling post to yours and give your opinion.
  - war1025 8y ago
    It's entirely possible to be accepting and understanding of individuals, while still disagreeing with the larger social groups and movements they are a part of. In fact, pretty much everyone does that in some way or another every single day. The thing I take issue with is the knee-jerk reaction of certain people to shut down any conversation that suggests traditional roles and definitions were and still are valid. Yes it's simplistic. It was a one line statement. Is it dismissive? Maybe. But it also has a grain of truth to it, which is what bothers people.

Sure there are, and all of those things are determined by biology, not choice. That said, this is a topic that could go off the rails and sideways very quickly...

happytoexplain 8y ago

It's my (extremely outside) understanding that the concepts of physical/genetic/choose-something-objective gender are not what people mean in these conversations - nor are they referring to the subjective identity of what kinds of people one feels sexually attracted to. They are referring to a third thing, also subjective, best described as "what gender you feel like", which is very much like how old or young you feel, except much more closely related to one's identity (I "feel" young, which is great, but I also "feel" male, which is more than great - it's critically important to my self identity). So, both of these things (age and gender) have subjective and objectives measures - the difference is that "years old", which term the law uses, is patently objective both legally and linguistically, whereas on the other hand "male/female/etc", which terms the law also uses, is less objective linguistically (as described above), and therefore there is at least one basis on which you could argue for a legal change of gender - a basis that does not exist for a change-of-age argument.

war1025 8y ago
As much as anything, this comes down to societal gender roles and a desire not to conform with the ones you've been assigned. In a different culture, it could simply come down to "piss off and I'll do what I want", but we live in a time and place where labels very much matter to people, and they want to be able to pick labels that mean what they would like.
knicholes 8y ago
I've always wondered how someone knows how a man feels or how a woman feels. All I know is how I feel. How am I to determine that the way I feel is the way everyone who identifies as women feel, or the way everyone who identifies as men feel? Certainly there's a continuum where rarely do two individuals feel exactly the same.

war1025 8y ago

Because it's socially popular for it to be, so the goalposts will be moved wherever they need to be for it to be true.

happytoexplain 8y ago
This is pretty dismissive and simplistic. You should read my sibling post to yours and give your opinion.
- war1025 8y ago
  It's entirely possible to be accepting and understanding of individuals, while still disagreeing with the larger social groups and movements they are a part of. In fact, pretty much everyone does that in some way or another every single day. The thing I take issue with is the knee-jerk reaction of certain people to shut down any conversation that suggests traditional roles and definitions were and still are valid. Yes it's simplistic. It was a one line statement. Is it dismissive? Maybe. But it also has a grain of truth to it, which is what bothers people.