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For a second I thought I was reading The Onion. I do however like the philosophical nature of the question: If people can change their gender based on they fee

For a second I thought I was reading The Onion. I do however like the philosophical nature of the question: If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age?

EpicEng 8y ago
Because neither of them actually work that way?
nkkollaw 8y ago
You're right. The answer to that is that people should not be able to change their gender--unless something gets invented that can change your chromosomes--but if they can then age and race should be allowed, too. If anything, because by changing gender you can get all sort of advantages if you become a woman: - tax cuts if you start a company - retire earlier - you win at sport competitions - about 1000 other things If I feel like [insert minority], why can't I change my race and get the same benefits? If we have to be abandon common sense, we should be coherent.
- kennywinker 8y ago
  > unless something gets invented that can change your chromosomes Let me preent two arguments against that line of thinking: - people born with chromasomal oddities such as XXY or XYY, asked to fit in box XY or XX, they do not fit. Do we need a separate gender for all possible chromosomal configurations? There are more than you might expect. - while you can’t change your chromosomes, you can change how people percieve you in the world. Is gender (as in drivers license m or f) actually supposed to represent your chromosomal configuration - or is it there to match up with how you are percieved? Last thing: you point to advantages of being female. While I’d argue that those advantages don’t exist because being female come with disadvantages that balance things out, but even if they did, the cost of changing your entire identity makes them unappealing. I find it hard to believe we’d see any significant number of people doing anything like this.
tdb7893 8y ago
"Gender" is a social construct but while "old" or "young" is a social construct "69 years old" isn't really.
- ArchTypical 8y ago
  69 years old (more or less on earth or in space) is no different than Male or Female (more or less). The difference is in relative subjective granularity.
  - kennywinker 8y ago
    In what sense is the time since birth subjective? Excepting general relativity time dilation Interstellar situations, that is.
  - tdb7893 8y ago
    Many people refer to sex as what someone is biologically and gender as what society considers them (edit: just FYI I'm not an expert and this is probably an oversimplification). While sex is more constant there isn't any reason gender has to be (and there are practical reasons why it shouldn't be but that's out of scope of this comment). This means that while biologically someone might have two XX chromosomes and be 60 years old it's not necessary that society considers them an old woman.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    That's simply wrong. Age has a definition. You cannot 'feel' yourself into a different age. Sex != gender.
    - ArchTypical 8y ago
      > That's simply wrong. > Age has a definition. Relativity explains that this definition is subjective, experimentally. Astronauts experience time differentials and it will only get more obvious as we go farther. Again, the concept of granularity (how much of what matters from what perspective) applies in both cases - age and gender. This isn't a justification. Resolve this philosophically however you like with one and I observe that it should be true in the other case.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age? One of these is subjective. The other is not.
- monochromatic 8y ago
  Can you explain why you think that?
thinkingemote 8y ago
Indeed. Imagine someone exposed to fiberglass or coal dust whose health may be equivalent as a person twenty years older than them. Might not a stronger case be made that a person could be 69 rather than 49?
cbuq 8y ago
I agree that there is a philosophical discussion to be had, but the actual request was to change his official date of birth from March 11, 1949 to March 11, 1969 which is just ridiculous.
panic 8y ago
“Age” and “gender” in this case are just entries in a government database somewhere. There’s no deep philosophy to it. Trans people wanted to be able to change their gender, so they fought hard for it—that’s what you need to do to get policies like this changed. If people want to be able to change their age, they’ll have to fight for that too.
- epicureanideal 8y ago
  I think "sex" is in the government database, not gender.
  - knicholes 8y ago
    I just checked my UT driver's license and saw "Sex:" "M"
    - epicureanideal 8y ago
      Good idea. I just checked mine, in California, and it also says "Sex: M". It also unjustly classifies me as having "BRN" hair. I don't have brown hair, I have dark brown hair, and a particular shade of brown hair that isn't captured by the government's arbitrarily chosen tetradecimal categorization scheme. Hair color is a spectrum, and they should recognize that by ending the practice of falsely categorizing people into inaccurate groups. Similarly, they commit the same act of violence against me by classifying my eyes as "BRN", when I am sure my eyes' unique hue is not precisely #A52A2A. [1] http://www.vsp.state.va.us/afis/livescan/files/VAEye&HairColor&RaceCodes.pdf http://www.vsp.state.va.us/afis/livescan/files/VAEye&HairCol... (Yes, this is Virginia, I couldn't find one for California.)
- EpicEng 8y ago
  Gender is malleable; sex and age are not.
noonespecial 8y ago
It's the difference between are and were. Age is an indication that you existed at some point in the past. It's a compacted record of reality. You cant change that arbitrarily even if you "feel younger". Changing gender simply is a desire to change what you are currently. The whole notion of transitioning is to change from what you were to something that you feel more comfortable being.
ggggtez 8y ago
Because then he could be married before he was even born? Or a young person could "feel" like you are 65+, and start collecting retirement benefits early? Or they could "feel" 21+, so they could buy alcohol? Or if by changing your age, then a crime you committed when you were 18 was retroactively changed to when you were a minor? Changing your gender doesn't actually have many legal implications (outside of, perhaps, marriage). Changing your age would throw your entire legal history into question.

For a second I thought I was reading The Onion. I do however like the philosophical nature of the question: If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age?

EpicEng 8y ago

Because neither of them actually work that way?

nkkollaw 8y ago

You're right. The answer to that is that people should not be able to change their gender--unless something gets invented that can change your chromosomes--but if they can then age and race should be allowed, too. If anything, because by changing gender you can get all sort of advantages if you become a woman: - tax cuts if you start a company - retire earlier - you win at sport competitions - about 1000 other things If I feel like [insert minority], why can't I change my race and get the same benefits? If we have to be abandon common sense, we should be coherent.

kennywinker 8y ago
> unless something gets invented that can change your chromosomes Let me preent two arguments against that line of thinking: - people born with chromasomal oddities such as XXY or XYY, asked to fit in box XY or XX, they do not fit. Do we need a separate gender for all possible chromosomal configurations? There are more than you might expect. - while you can’t change your chromosomes, you can change how people percieve you in the world. Is gender (as in drivers license m or f) actually supposed to represent your chromosomal configuration - or is it there to match up with how you are percieved? Last thing: you point to advantages of being female. While I’d argue that those advantages don’t exist because being female come with disadvantages that balance things out, but even if they did, the cost of changing your entire identity makes them unappealing. I find it hard to believe we’d see any significant number of people doing anything like this.

tdb7893 8y ago

"Gender" is a social construct but while "old" or "young" is a social construct "69 years old" isn't really.

ArchTypical 8y ago
69 years old (more or less on earth or in space) is no different than Male or Female (more or less). The difference is in relative subjective granularity.
- kennywinker 8y ago
  In what sense is the time since birth subjective? Excepting general relativity time dilation Interstellar situations, that is.
- tdb7893 8y ago
  Many people refer to sex as what someone is biologically and gender as what society considers them (edit: just FYI I'm not an expert and this is probably an oversimplification). While sex is more constant there isn't any reason gender has to be (and there are practical reasons why it shouldn't be but that's out of scope of this comment). This means that while biologically someone might have two XX chromosomes and be 60 years old it's not necessary that society considers them an old woman.
- EpicEng 8y ago
  That's simply wrong. Age has a definition. You cannot 'feel' yourself into a different age. Sex != gender.
  - ArchTypical 8y ago
    > That's simply wrong. > Age has a definition. Relativity explains that this definition is subjective, experimentally. Astronauts experience time differentials and it will only get more obvious as we go farther. Again, the concept of granularity (how much of what matters from what perspective) applies in both cases - age and gender. This isn't a justification. Resolve this philosophically however you like with one and I observe that it should be true in the other case.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> If people can change their gender based on they feel, why can’t they change their age? One of these is subjective. The other is not.

monochromatic 8y ago
Can you explain why you think that?

thinkingemote 8y ago

Indeed. Imagine someone exposed to fiberglass or coal dust whose health may be equivalent as a person twenty years older than them. Might not a stronger case be made that a person could be 69 rather than 49?

cbuq 8y ago

I agree that there is a philosophical discussion to be had, but the actual request was to change his official date of birth from March 11, 1949 to March 11, 1969 which is just ridiculous.

panic 8y ago

“Age” and “gender” in this case are just entries in a government database somewhere. There’s no deep philosophy to it. Trans people wanted to be able to change their gender, so they fought hard for it—that’s what you need to do to get policies like this changed. If people want to be able to change their age, they’ll have to fight for that too.

epicureanideal 8y ago
I think "sex" is in the government database, not gender.
- knicholes 8y ago
  I just checked my UT driver's license and saw "Sex:" "M"
  - epicureanideal 8y ago
    Good idea. I just checked mine, in California, and it also says "Sex: M". It also unjustly classifies me as having "BRN" hair. I don't have brown hair, I have dark brown hair, and a particular shade of brown hair that isn't captured by the government's arbitrarily chosen tetradecimal categorization scheme. Hair color is a spectrum, and they should recognize that by ending the practice of falsely categorizing people into inaccurate groups. Similarly, they commit the same act of violence against me by classifying my eyes as "BRN", when I am sure my eyes' unique hue is not precisely #A52A2A. [1] http://www.vsp.state.va.us/afis/livescan/files/VAEye&HairColor&RaceCodes.pdf http://www.vsp.state.va.us/afis/livescan/files/VAEye&HairCol... (Yes, this is Virginia, I couldn't find one for California.)
EpicEng 8y ago
Gender is malleable; sex and age are not.

noonespecial 8y ago

It's the difference between are and were. Age is an indication that you existed at some point in the past. It's a compacted record of reality. You cant change that arbitrarily even if you "feel younger". Changing gender simply is a desire to change what you are currently. The whole notion of transitioning is to change from what you were to something that you feel more comfortable being.

ggggtez 8y ago

Because then he could be married before he was even born? Or a young person could "feel" like you are 65+, and start collecting retirement benefits early? Or they could "feel" 21+, so they could buy alcohol? Or if by changing your age, then a crime you committed when you were 18 was retroactively changed to when you were a minor? Changing your gender doesn't actually have many legal implications (outside of, perhaps, marriage). Changing your age would throw your entire legal history into question.