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“If I’m getting upset, I’m probably wrong.” It’s a specific kind of feeling, when my brain starts protecting itself against information that proves me wrong. K

“If I’m getting upset, I’m probably wrong.” It’s a specific kind of feeling, when my brain starts protecting itself against information that proves me wrong. Kind of like a real threat. It feels like I’m under attack, and I’m losing. I get subtly upset (because I’m a know-it-all and I want to be right), which is itself quickly reframed as anger, probably by that same mechanism. Probably much easier to admit that I’m angry because of “that guy!” than that I’m gonna be a crybaby because I’m wrong. But them’s the breaks, son. I find it hard, and I wish I could say it gets easier, but it doesn’t. It sucks being wrong, and it’s humiliating. I’d describe it as: at any moment you feel a flare of anger, try and ask yourself, what if you were wrong? If you find it hard to even engage in the thought experiment, that’s probably it. On a normal day you’d have no problem doing it. Try it now: it’s just a thought. Try it when you’re upset: it’s practically impossible.

tvladeck 8y ago
One thing Phil Knight wrote in Shoe Dog that has stuck with me is something similar: "If all you see are problems, you're not seeing clearly" There are often times when I feel like "every way is up" and that there are only bad outcomes; this quote leads me to re-think whether or not I'm seeing the issue clearly or not.
seatdrummer 8y ago
There are many reasons someone could be angry. Someone might be impatient, low on sleep, frustrated they other person is being offensive. its as if one was debating flat earth theory and the other person was making ad hominem attacks, denying facts, picking at technicalities of your argument instead of the meat of your point (never say always or never because someone will find a single instance of that thing happening or not happening and suddenly they have side stepped the whole line of argument). On the other hand if you are handling a skilled debater, and they have snuck in some false premises that have led you down a road to agreeing that abortion is objectively wrong and shouldn't be legal, that may make someone upset. It could just be that the person is upset because they feel strongly about their stance but they aren't sure where down the line of the argument they went off track. OR someone could actually be inconsistent with their thinking and when they are shown that they are wrong, they get upset. It can't possibly just be that when you are angry you are probably are wrong, unless you only get angry when you are wrong.
jmts 8y ago
I've found that this is easy to flip on its head, at least for yourself. Convincing the masses to treat errors differently is another problem altogether. People tend to get defensive about being wrong for two reasons. Either because they fear being punished, or they have associated the thing they are wrong about with their identity. People don't tend to make mistakes knowingly. Either they were tired, uninformed, inexperienced, or whatever. Most often these things are out of their control. To attack them and say "What are you? Some kind of idiot?" is unhelpful and leads to the sentiments described in the parent. Next time they screw up, they'll lie about it, deny it, or blame it on someone else. Accepting that mistakes happen, and they're rarely intended helps you to be more empathetic when other people mess up, and helps you disregard the insensitive reactions of other people whenever you mess up. When people associate ideas with their identity, this makes any attack on the idea an attack on them personally. This seems to be fairly common nowadays on the political landscape, especially with all the labels that people give themselves and each other. The matter of the fact is that ideas are only concepts, and their only attachment to a person is whether they think they are valid or not. A person can very easily change their mind, however the moment an idea becomes associated with their identity it becomes much harder. Allow yourself to be wrong, allow yourself to be convinced, and change your mind, and you likely won't care nearly as much when it turns out you were wrong - you just didn't know better, and you can't know everything, but now you know more.
sanderjd 8y ago
Some of this strikes me as good advice; it's certainly always good to engage in the "what if I'm wrong?" thought experiment. But I don't find "am I upset?" to provide a very strong signal either way. I'm often upset when I'm wrong, but I'm also often upset when I'm right and the thing being discussed is simply upsetting.
stevenkovar 8y ago
Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance, https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html Similarly: if you are getting upset in such a fashion, it can help to take a literal step back from the situation (or idea) causing it—go for a short walk. From a long-term perspective, getting upset over one small thing is not worth the mental anguish and lost time.
SpecialistEMT 8y ago
“If I’m getting upset, I’m probably wrong.” Perfect centrist mindset.

tvladeck 8y ago

One thing Phil Knight wrote in Shoe Dog that has stuck with me is something similar: "If all you see are problems, you're not seeing clearly" There are often times when I feel like "every way is up" and that there are only bad outcomes; this quote leads me to re-think whether or not I'm seeing the issue clearly or not.

seatdrummer 8y ago

There are many reasons someone could be angry. Someone might be impatient, low on sleep, frustrated they other person is being offensive. its as if one was debating flat earth theory and the other person was making ad hominem attacks, denying facts, picking at technicalities of your argument instead of the meat of your point (never say always or never because someone will find a single instance of that thing happening or not happening and suddenly they have side stepped the whole line of argument). On the other hand if you are handling a skilled debater, and they have snuck in some false premises that have led you down a road to agreeing that abortion is objectively wrong and shouldn't be legal, that may make someone upset. It could just be that the person is upset because they feel strongly about their stance but they aren't sure where down the line of the argument they went off track. OR someone could actually be inconsistent with their thinking and when they are shown that they are wrong, they get upset. It can't possibly just be that when you are angry you are probably are wrong, unless you only get angry when you are wrong.

jmts 8y ago

I've found that this is easy to flip on its head, at least for yourself. Convincing the masses to treat errors differently is another problem altogether. People tend to get defensive about being wrong for two reasons. Either because they fear being punished, or they have associated the thing they are wrong about with their identity. People don't tend to make mistakes knowingly. Either they were tired, uninformed, inexperienced, or whatever. Most often these things are out of their control. To attack them and say "What are you? Some kind of idiot?" is unhelpful and leads to the sentiments described in the parent. Next time they screw up, they'll lie about it, deny it, or blame it on someone else. Accepting that mistakes happen, and they're rarely intended helps you to be more empathetic when other people mess up, and helps you disregard the insensitive reactions of other people whenever you mess up. When people associate ideas with their identity, this makes any attack on the idea an attack on them personally. This seems to be fairly common nowadays on the political landscape, especially with all the labels that people give themselves and each other. The matter of the fact is that ideas are only concepts, and their only attachment to a person is whether they think they are valid or not. A person can very easily change their mind, however the moment an idea becomes associated with their identity it becomes much harder. Allow yourself to be wrong, allow yourself to be convinced, and change your mind, and you likely won't care nearly as much when it turns out you were wrong - you just didn't know better, and you can't know everything, but now you know more.

sanderjd 8y ago

Some of this strikes me as good advice; it's certainly always good to engage in the "what if I'm wrong?" thought experiment. But I don't find "am I upset?" to provide a very strong signal either way. I'm often upset when I'm wrong, but I'm also often upset when I'm right and the thing being discussed is simply upsetting.

stevenkovar 8y ago

Relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance, https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html https://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html Similarly: if you are getting upset in such a fashion, it can help to take a literal step back from the situation (or idea) causing it—go for a short walk. From a long-term perspective, getting upset over one small thing is not worth the mental anguish and lost time.

SpecialistEMT 8y ago

“If I’m getting upset, I’m probably wrong.” Perfect centrist mindset.