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I'm surprised no one from Google has made a full-throated defense of this project. Not that I personally agree with it, but there is a case to be made that proj

I'm surprised no one from Google has made a full-throated defense of this project. Not that I personally agree with it, but there is a case to be made that projects like Dragonfly embody the longstanding US policy of "constructive engagement" with China. It's not hard to imagine Hennessy or Pichai extolling the virtues of compromise and highlighting a handful of key concessions from the Chinese gov't. Why haven't we heard that? Either 1) Even Google's leadership doesn't believe this has any moral upside, only financial, or 2) They can't so much as admit that they're making concessions to an authoritarian regime, for fear of offending said regime. Both explanations betray remarkable moral cowardice.

kyrra 8y ago
https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/28/google-dragonfly-letter/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/28/google-dragonfly-letter/ There was a leaked memo of those that support the project.
lozenge 8y ago
Because there are no concessions from the Chinese government. Well, their concession is to offer Google revenue from China, but that's hardly a universally recognised good - that's just money flowing from one place to another.
throwaway2048 8y ago
"constructive engagement" has been a farce, china has been increasingly authoritarian and abusive over the last decade, except now they have the economic weight to make it difficult to oppose. The only thing that plan ever was, was a scam to enrich a lot of companies taking advantage of cheap labor (Who are going to get bulldozed now that China has stolen all the IP of consequence). It was never some moral stance that was going to get china to "come around" on freedom and democracy. Just like Google's stance isn't about morality, its about making more money.
fizwhiz 8y ago
Because the advocates of the project keep the conversation internal (and civil) instead of trying incite outrage through leaks, mobs, grandstanding, moral posturing and what not[1]. Source: I'm a Google employee. [1] https://medium.com/@googlersagainstdragonfly/we-are-google-employees-google-must-drop-dragonfly-4c8a30c5e5eb https://medium.com/@googlersagainstdragonfly/we-are-google-e...
- _iyig 8y ago
  I’m also a Google employee. The overwhelming majority of internal opposition to Dragonfly has been civil and considerate. There have been uncivil remarks and accusations by several who support Dragonfly. (EDIT: I should clarify that these rude voices are a minority, on all sides of the issue.) Please keep discussion of this issue substantive.
  - fizwhiz 8y ago
    Do you have any links you can point me to that demonstrate the pro-Dragonfly folks going through similar lengths to "have themselves heard"? What part of my statement seems unsubstantive?
    - _iyig 8y ago
      You frame the anti-Dragonfly contingent as “trying incite outrage through leaks, mobs, grandstanding, moral posturing and what not.” This generalization is inaccurate and non-substantive.
- hueving 8y ago
  Right, it's best to keep those discussions amongst everyone who stands to make heaps of cash by ignoring nagging morality. This is why in any legal proceedings against companies they only allow the jurors and judge to be made up of employees or major shareholders.

kyrra 8y ago

https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/28/google-dragonfly-letter/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/28/google-dragonfly-letter/ There was a leaked memo of those that support the project.

lozenge 8y ago

Because there are no concessions from the Chinese government. Well, their concession is to offer Google revenue from China, but that's hardly a universally recognised good - that's just money flowing from one place to another.

throwaway2048 8y ago

"constructive engagement" has been a farce, china has been increasingly authoritarian and abusive over the last decade, except now they have the economic weight to make it difficult to oppose. The only thing that plan ever was, was a scam to enrich a lot of companies taking advantage of cheap labor (Who are going to get bulldozed now that China has stolen all the IP of consequence). It was never some moral stance that was going to get china to "come around" on freedom and democracy. Just like Google's stance isn't about morality, its about making more money.

fizwhiz 8y ago

Because the advocates of the project keep the conversation internal (and civil) instead of trying incite outrage through leaks, mobs, grandstanding, moral posturing and what not[1]. Source: I'm a Google employee. [1] https://medium.com/@googlersagainstdragonfly/we-are-google-employees-google-must-drop-dragonfly-4c8a30c5e5eb https://medium.com/@googlersagainstdragonfly/we-are-google-e...

_iyig 8y ago
I’m also a Google employee. The overwhelming majority of internal opposition to Dragonfly has been civil and considerate. There have been uncivil remarks and accusations by several who support Dragonfly. (EDIT: I should clarify that these rude voices are a minority, on all sides of the issue.) Please keep discussion of this issue substantive.
- fizwhiz 8y ago
  Do you have any links you can point me to that demonstrate the pro-Dragonfly folks going through similar lengths to "have themselves heard"? What part of my statement seems unsubstantive?
  - _iyig 8y ago
    You frame the anti-Dragonfly contingent as “trying incite outrage through leaks, mobs, grandstanding, moral posturing and what not.” This generalization is inaccurate and non-substantive.
hueving 8y ago
Right, it's best to keep those discussions amongst everyone who stands to make heaps of cash by ignoring nagging morality. This is why in any legal proceedings against companies they only allow the jurors and judge to be made up of employees or major shareholders.