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Can someone help me understand why Google would create such a solution for the Chinese government? Is it money (does Google need it)? How else does Google benef

by fumar 8y ago

Can someone help me understand why Google would create such a solution for the Chinese government? Is it money (does Google need it)? How else does Google benefit? Does this mean other search engines like Bing will follow suit?

ForHackernews 8y ago
Yes, it's money. China is the only large market where Google isn't dominant. If they want to keep growing (and justifying their stock price) they have to expand in China. Really, the answer to a question "Why is X company doing Y?" is almost always money. There's no question of "needing it": the only raison d'etre for a corporation is to get more money.
- spiznnx 8y ago
  Russia is also a large market where Google isn't dominant. And there's no regulatory reason for that, Google just has a worse Russian search product than Yandex. In Korea too, Naver is winning.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    That's true, I suppose, but Russia isn't really that large of a market for a company like Google. The entire Russian economy is smaller than that of New York State, or countries like Italy or Canada.
whizzkid 8y ago
This is more about being obsessed about growing than the money. Apple, Google, and all other enterprise company boards will always try to grow themselves. They are afraid of being left behind. Microsoft with mobile phones, Apple with driverless cars, and Google with chinese market apparently. Google thinks that pie is so delicious and they can work around the cencorship issue. Sad times.
seemuch 8y ago
This is a very common way of looking at this problem, and I find it absurd: Google is creating this "for the Chinese government". How about for the Chinese users? I for one am a Chinese use, and I would love to be able to use Google in China.
- resters 8y ago
  Exactly. The parent comment underscores the patronizing and disrespectful view of the Chinese people implicit in the anti-Dragonfly rhetoric. It also notes the bias that the Chinese Government is the customer, and the people just hapless victims of that government. This disrespect of the agency of the Chinese people is being used as it always is, to justify an over-simplified, binary, political type of moral indignation. The warning sign should be the emotion of indignation over foreign politics. It’s a clue that one is probably wrong.
  - int_19h 8y ago
    An authoritarian oppressive government that has the support of the majority of the population is still an authoritarian and oppressive government. Whether the people are its victims or its enablers is irrelevant to the ethics of the situation here. Either it's okay to aid and abet political repression, or it's not. If it's not, then it's not okay to assist China, regardless of what the majority of its populace thinks about that (you can always find the minority that has a very different opinion - start with the inmates of those labor camps...). Conversely, if Chinese users want Google, and if they're not just hapless victims of their government, then they're welcome to put pressure on said government to stop censoring google.com.
    - resters 8y ago
      > An authoritarian oppressive government that has the support of the majority of the population is still an authoritarian and oppressive government. This is indeed the neoconservative view. An analogous statement by a sectarian neoconservative might be "A heathen government that has the support of the majority of people is still a heathen government". > Either it's okay to aid and abet political repression, or it's not. Binary, over-simplification. What is political repression? Does America's Gitmo count? Our imprisonment of nonviolent drug offenders? Our criminalization of sex work? How is it that the source of all the righteous indignation happens to lie on the other side of the world? > ...they're not just hapless victims of their government, then they're welcome to put pressure on said government So the Chinese people are being tested now to see if they have the mettle to demand a free society in the image of the USA? Your remark actually supports my point that the neoconservative view entails judgment (and the process of dehumanization) of the population that is first framed as victims, then shamed for not prioritizing one political cause above all else. Note, the idea that China should adopt policies in the image of the USA is where the neocon view merges with the white supremacist view. The idea that the precise nuances of Western democracy are innately superior due to the unique cultural circumstances that gave rise to the US, making them less likely to occur elsewhere.
mmmmmmmmm 8y ago
Bing already serves a censored search engine in China. Google would be following Bing.

by fumar 8y ago

ForHackernews 8y ago

Yes, it's money. China is the only large market where Google isn't dominant. If they want to keep growing (and justifying their stock price) they have to expand in China. Really, the answer to a question "Why is X company doing Y?" is almost always money. There's no question of "needing it": the only raison d'etre for a corporation is to get more money.

spiznnx 8y ago
Russia is also a large market where Google isn't dominant. And there's no regulatory reason for that, Google just has a worse Russian search product than Yandex. In Korea too, Naver is winning.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  That's true, I suppose, but Russia isn't really that large of a market for a company like Google. The entire Russian economy is smaller than that of New York State, or countries like Italy or Canada.

whizzkid 8y ago

This is more about being obsessed about growing than the money. Apple, Google, and all other enterprise company boards will always try to grow themselves. They are afraid of being left behind. Microsoft with mobile phones, Apple with driverless cars, and Google with chinese market apparently. Google thinks that pie is so delicious and they can work around the cencorship issue. Sad times.

seemuch 8y ago

This is a very common way of looking at this problem, and I find it absurd: Google is creating this "for the Chinese government". How about for the Chinese users? I for one am a Chinese use, and I would love to be able to use Google in China.

resters 8y ago
Exactly. The parent comment underscores the patronizing and disrespectful view of the Chinese people implicit in the anti-Dragonfly rhetoric. It also notes the bias that the Chinese Government is the customer, and the people just hapless victims of that government. This disrespect of the agency of the Chinese people is being used as it always is, to justify an over-simplified, binary, political type of moral indignation. The warning sign should be the emotion of indignation over foreign politics. It’s a clue that one is probably wrong.
- int_19h 8y ago
  An authoritarian oppressive government that has the support of the majority of the population is still an authoritarian and oppressive government. Whether the people are its victims or its enablers is irrelevant to the ethics of the situation here. Either it's okay to aid and abet political repression, or it's not. If it's not, then it's not okay to assist China, regardless of what the majority of its populace thinks about that (you can always find the minority that has a very different opinion - start with the inmates of those labor camps...). Conversely, if Chinese users want Google, and if they're not just hapless victims of their government, then they're welcome to put pressure on said government to stop censoring google.com.
  - resters 8y ago
    > An authoritarian oppressive government that has the support of the majority of the population is still an authoritarian and oppressive government. This is indeed the neoconservative view. An analogous statement by a sectarian neoconservative might be "A heathen government that has the support of the majority of people is still a heathen government". > Either it's okay to aid and abet political repression, or it's not. Binary, over-simplification. What is political repression? Does America's Gitmo count? Our imprisonment of nonviolent drug offenders? Our criminalization of sex work? How is it that the source of all the righteous indignation happens to lie on the other side of the world? > ...they're not just hapless victims of their government, then they're welcome to put pressure on said government So the Chinese people are being tested now to see if they have the mettle to demand a free society in the image of the USA? Your remark actually supports my point that the neoconservative view entails judgment (and the process of dehumanization) of the population that is first framed as victims, then shamed for not prioritizing one political cause above all else. Note, the idea that China should adopt policies in the image of the USA is where the neocon view merges with the white supremacist view. The idea that the precise nuances of Western democracy are innately superior due to the unique cultural circumstances that gave rise to the US, making them less likely to occur elsewhere.

mmmmmmmmm 8y ago

Bing already serves a censored search engine in China. Google would be following Bing.