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I used to be addicting to heroin. The problem is with fentanyl, not heroin. I've had 2 close friends die from overdoses, and both involved fentanyl. I got close

by mruts 8y ago

I used to be addicting to heroin. The problem is with fentanyl, not heroin. I've had 2 close friends die from overdoses, and both involved fentanyl. I got close myself a couple times (or so my wife says, I was passed out), and both were fentanyl laced doses. I honestly and truly believe that opiates (and all drugs) should be legal. I think you would find the number of overdoses drop drastically if that were the case. No one wants to do fentanyl, it doesn't last as long and feels weird. Heroin itself is very safe if it's not cut and the purity is known ahead of time.

acct1771 8y ago
But it commonly is, and you commonly don't.
- jlg23 8y ago
  The comment you responded to just pointed that out.
loeg 8y ago
Fentanyl is a problem but people definitely died of heroin overdose, or other heroin-related illness (infection, random other poisoning due to adulterants), long before fentanyl entered the picture.
- stronglikedan 8y ago
  I think that's why OP qualified it with "the purity is known ahead of time." There are relatively not very many overdose deaths from pill versions of opiates where the dosage is known, because people generally know how much they can handle and generally don't want to die.
  - loeg 8y ago
    Totally agree. The death rate per capita between heroin users and prescription opioid users is totally different as a result.
  - dillondoyle 8y ago
    * so long as not mixing with other cns depressants which is a big killer
    - stronglikedan 8y ago
      Also a waste, since opiates are so good on their own.
    - loeg 8y ago
      Or with additional tylenol.
MrTonyD 8y ago
About 20 years ago I read a book of first person accounts of addiction. I was amazed. All the addicts had become addicted when heroin was legal and cheap - and they were leading normal lives with jobs and families. It was when drugs were made illegal that their addiction suddenly became something which destroyed their lives.
- traderjane 8y ago
  I think that's the difference between being adapted and adaptable. People who have addictions to inexpensive things are adapted to their environment, but not adaptable when heroin becomes expensive.
3minus1 8y ago
> No one wants to do fentanyl I question this. I recently watched Netflix's Dope documentary and they talk about how an increase in overdoses due to a stronger batch (i.e. cut with more fentanyl) leads to higher demand on the street because addicts want more potent drugs.
- xkcd-sucks 8y ago
  That's because they're treating overdose as a proxy for heroin purity
throwaway5752 8y ago
"Heroin itself is very safe" Heroin might be relatively safer than fentanyl. It's a terrible drug that ruins live and families and has been for centuries. It irreversibly harms your brain, wrecks your veins, is the most addictive common drug, and is tolerance-forming.
- praxulus 8y ago
  Heroin is roughly comparable to alcohol in terms of harmfulness. Some analyses find it worse, some find it less harmful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Almost everyone agrees that despite the harms caused by alcohol, we were even worse off under prohibition. Why would the same not be true of Heroin?
  - vkou 8y ago
    3 of the 4 charts in your source put heroin as much worse then alcohol, and the 1 that has them close together is completely unsourced. Overall harm between the two may be similar, but there are an order of magnitude more alcohol users, then heroin users. (I believe that legal access to heroin for addicts will save lives.)
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    > Almost everyone agrees that despite the harms caused by alcohol, we were even worse off under prohibition. That is an exaggeration. In polls a sizable proportion (~20%) are still in favor of banning alcohol. Popular assessments that we were “worse off” during prohibition are based on decades of propaganda and mythology rather than careful analysis, and a confusion between the effects of prohibition and the effects of the great depression. e.g. from a quick web search (there are probably better resources) https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibit... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/ (Note: I am not personally in favor of prohibition.)
    - kazinator 8y ago
JamesBarney 8y ago
How do you know for sure what percentages of each batch were fentanyl? I can understand why it would be more dangerous, higher binding affinities mean smaller recreational window.
- mruts 8y ago
  Heroin has a very distinctive taste to it. If your powder doesn't have a taste, then it's either: a) bunk or b) fentanyl. Also, you can tell by the feeling.

by mruts 8y ago

acct1771 8y ago

But it commonly is, and you commonly don't.

jlg23 8y ago
The comment you responded to just pointed that out.

loeg 8y ago

Fentanyl is a problem but people definitely died of heroin overdose, or other heroin-related illness (infection, random other poisoning due to adulterants), long before fentanyl entered the picture.

stronglikedan 8y ago
I think that's why OP qualified it with "the purity is known ahead of time." There are relatively not very many overdose deaths from pill versions of opiates where the dosage is known, because people generally know how much they can handle and generally don't want to die.
- loeg 8y ago
  Totally agree. The death rate per capita between heroin users and prescription opioid users is totally different as a result.
- dillondoyle 8y ago
  * so long as not mixing with other cns depressants which is a big killer
  - stronglikedan 8y ago
    Also a waste, since opiates are so good on their own.
  - loeg 8y ago
    Or with additional tylenol.

MrTonyD 8y ago

About 20 years ago I read a book of first person accounts of addiction. I was amazed. All the addicts had become addicted when heroin was legal and cheap - and they were leading normal lives with jobs and families. It was when drugs were made illegal that their addiction suddenly became something which destroyed their lives.

traderjane 8y ago
I think that's the difference between being adapted and adaptable. People who have addictions to inexpensive things are adapted to their environment, but not adaptable when heroin becomes expensive.

3minus1 8y ago

> No one wants to do fentanyl I question this. I recently watched Netflix's Dope documentary and they talk about how an increase in overdoses due to a stronger batch (i.e. cut with more fentanyl) leads to higher demand on the street because addicts want more potent drugs.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago
That's because they're treating overdose as a proxy for heroin purity

throwaway5752 8y ago

"Heroin itself is very safe" Heroin might be relatively safer than fentanyl. It's a terrible drug that ruins live and families and has been for centuries. It irreversibly harms your brain, wrecks your veins, is the most addictive common drug, and is tolerance-forming.

praxulus 8y ago
Heroin is roughly comparable to alcohol in terms of harmfulness. Some analyses find it worse, some find it less harmful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Almost everyone agrees that despite the harms caused by alcohol, we were even worse off under prohibition. Why would the same not be true of Heroin?
- vkou 8y ago
  3 of the 4 charts in your source put heroin as much worse then alcohol, and the 1 that has them close together is completely unsourced. Overall harm between the two may be similar, but there are an order of magnitude more alcohol users, then heroin users. (I believe that legal access to heroin for addicts will save lives.)
- jacobolus 8y ago
  > Almost everyone agrees that despite the harms caused by alcohol, we were even worse off under prohibition. That is an exaggeration. In polls a sizable proportion (~20%) are still in favor of banning alcohol. Popular assessments that we were “worse off” during prohibition are based on decades of propaganda and mythology rather than careful analysis, and a confusion between the effects of prohibition and the effects of the great depression. e.g. from a quick web search (there are probably better resources) https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibition-was-a-success.html https://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/opinion/actually-prohibit... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/ (Note: I am not personally in favor of prohibition.)
  - kazinator 8y ago

JamesBarney 8y ago

How do you know for sure what percentages of each batch were fentanyl? I can understand why it would be more dangerous, higher binding affinities mean smaller recreational window.

mruts 8y ago
Heroin has a very distinctive taste to it. If your powder doesn't have a taste, then it's either: a) bunk or b) fentanyl. Also, you can tell by the feeling.