3 ms·

They’re still a win even when you use coal to charge. It’s true that manufacturing is more energy intensive, but the breakeven point is in the neighborhood of 1

They’re still a win even when you use coal to charge. It’s true that manufacturing is more energy intensive, but the breakeven point is in the neighborhood of 10-20,000 miles.

rohit2412 8y ago
Win compared to old models of gasoline and deisel? probably yes. Win compared to more efficient modern versions, I'm not sure. Win compared to hybrids? No way.
- mikeash 8y ago
  I don't think so. The added impact of battery manufacturing is quite small compared to the impact of manufacturing any vehicle, and that in turn is a fairly small proportion of the total impact of a vehicle over its lifetime. Only looking at driving, a Prius emits about 238 grams of CO2 per mile. A reasonably efficient EV charging from the US's current generation mix emits about 150 grams/mile. If we assume they'll last 200,000 miles on average, that's about 17 tonnes more CO2 for the Prius. The EV produces in the neighborhood of 6 tonnes more CO2 during manufacture compared to a traditional gas car, and this advantage will be slightly smaller compared to a hybrid.
  - rohit2412 8y ago
    I'm not sure why this guy doing a state by state breakdown comes to a different conclusion than you have. https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM I can find you more sources that say the same thing he does.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      Do you have something that’s not a video? They’re very time consuming, and in my experience the odds are small that a video used as a source in an online discussion is actually worth a damn.
      - rohit2412 8y ago
        Look at the map in the video around 9:20
reirob 8y ago
Do you have any references for the break even point?
- mikeash 8y ago
  This covers that and much more: https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953 https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-...

They’re still a win even when you use coal to charge. It’s true that manufacturing is more energy intensive, but the breakeven point is in the neighborhood of 10-20,000 miles.

rohit2412 8y ago

Win compared to old models of gasoline and deisel? probably yes. Win compared to more efficient modern versions, I'm not sure. Win compared to hybrids? No way.

mikeash 8y ago
I don't think so. The added impact of battery manufacturing is quite small compared to the impact of manufacturing any vehicle, and that in turn is a fairly small proportion of the total impact of a vehicle over its lifetime. Only looking at driving, a Prius emits about 238 grams of CO2 per mile. A reasonably efficient EV charging from the US's current generation mix emits about 150 grams/mile. If we assume they'll last 200,000 miles on average, that's about 17 tonnes more CO2 for the Prius. The EV produces in the neighborhood of 6 tonnes more CO2 during manufacture compared to a traditional gas car, and this advantage will be slightly smaller compared to a hybrid.
- rohit2412 8y ago
  I'm not sure why this guy doing a state by state breakdown comes to a different conclusion than you have. https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM I can find you more sources that say the same thing he does.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Do you have something that’s not a video? They’re very time consuming, and in my experience the odds are small that a video used as a source in an online discussion is actually worth a damn.
    - rohit2412 8y ago
      Look at the map in the video around 9:20

reirob 8y ago

Do you have any references for the break even point?

mikeash 8y ago
This covers that and much more: https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-global-warming-emissions-953 https://blog.ucsusa.org/rachael-nealer/gasoline-vs-electric-...