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You sit with an old friend in bar, already quite drunk. You haven't seen this guys for years but now that you had such a nice evening you really feel like old b

by erikb 8y ago

You sit with an old friend in bar, already quite drunk. You haven't seen this guys for years but now that you had such a nice evening you really feel like old brothers. Now he tells you about this great house he has and that he considers to move to another town. He might let you take it before he puts it on the market and to a friendship price that he could certainly not achieve on the market. Will you, at this point, remember that "Scammers dress up ‘opportunities’ with professional looking brochures and websites to mask their fraudulent operations. They often begin with a phone call or email out of the blue from a scammer offering a ‘not-to-be-missed’, ‘high return’ or ‘guaranteed’ opportunity. The scammer usually operates from overseas, and will not have an Australian Financial Services licence"? Probably not. But you might remember the story that guy on hacker news told you. You might remember, just as in that story, that you should look out carefully when a "great opportunity" arises. You might check your emotional state and find the comradry you feel to that old friend might not be based on facts since you haven't seen him for a long time. It's rather related to you two having a great night together. And you might recognize that this combination of great offer, excitement, and a person who doesn't spend time with you often are combining to red flags for a scam. But that is all because it was a specific example, a story. Not just a list of facts and attributes that generally relate to a set of scams that can be categorized as rather similar. Therefore I'd argue that such a general list of scams, without specific examples, is not worth much. People's brain simply doesn't work like that. Rather check on Youtube for actual scams. Like "tourist scams in <countryX>".

bryanrasmussen 8y ago
I think I must not be a people, because my brain does generally work that way. Perhaps it can be that some peoples' brains work one way and others another way, and perhaps there are multiple ways of working.
- erikb 8y ago
  Can you explain how that works out? Like, do you have virtual checklists and for everything you experience over the day your head goes "check check check -> we must be in event X"? It's really hard to imagine. What I already know is emotional pattern matching. E.g. one smells a spice that one's mother used as a child and one is immediately transferred back to that time. In that way if one recognizes that high excitement is often related to advertisements or scams one might recognize when one feels that way that something might be fishy. Or what I also know is path recognition. E.g. "at first we did this, then we did this, then we did this, and therefore we arrived at X". In that way we can remember processes like riding a bike or our way home. That's also how memory palaces work.
  - nineteen999 8y ago
    Experience helps a lot. For example, I will never give money to a Buddhist monk walking the streets asking for donations, er, ever again. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-09/victorians-warned-against-donating-to-shameless-fake-charities/6008622 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-09/victorians-warned-aga... "Genuine monks do have a practice of having gifts or giving alms as part of their religion but it is meant to be a generous donation of those who wish to give without any solicitation whatsoever." In a similar way, I'd never work for another startup again. While I'm sure many startups have great intentions, others are out and out scams, and the vast majority will never break even enough to pay you the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that they promised you. Once burned, twice shy etc.
    - mikekchar 8y ago
      I was once waiting to board an airplane and a Buddhist monk sat beside me. I had a glance at him and notice a rolex watch. "That's odd", I thought. But sometimes Buddhist monks have stuff like that. And then I noticed that he hadn't shaved his head. Or his beard. "That's odd", I thought. But different orders do different things. And then he got called up to the desk and the attendant asked him, "I'm sorry sir, but I noticed that you didn't have a the vegetarian meal ordered. Would you like me to order one for you?". He said, "No thank you." "That's odd", I thought, but even monks have free choice in their meals. And then some guards with sniffer dogs walked up to him and took him away. "Oh. Not so odd after all".
      - erikb 8y ago
        Well, well. You still have a lot to learn, my Padawan. The better answer is not "that's odd" but "we'll see". ;-) http://buddhistinspiration.blogspot.com/2011/12/well-see-zen-story.html http://buddhistinspiration.blogspot.com/2011/12/well-see-zen...
  - bryanrasmussen 8y ago
    I believe it is more like path or pattern recognition, I have read about X + Y + Z, I experience something that has X + Y + Z, I think that reminds me of something what is it? My past reading flashes for me and then I start to draw conclusions about what I am experiencing. As a general rule I don't seem to require it to have been an example based communication, or a personal communication on the subject, but just an abstract description can be enough for me to say - hey this situation seems like a subclass of the general class described in that book of scams I read. Maybe I should think about that! That's all I took exception to, that abstract descriptions of things would not be helpful without concrete examples because people don't find abstract descriptions helpful enough. I tend to find them helpful. that said I have never experienced this smell a spice or eat a food thing and immediately remember that time years ago. To me that seems like bs, but I guess it must happen so many people talk about it.
aaron695 8y ago
This is not really relevant at all. Scammers are people you don't know. They can't really be your friend, cause you know, they scam people so either you know they are dodgy or they are really desperate since you've never seen them scam before. A friend who scamming you is like a suicide bomber, there's little you can do and it never happens off the news. So chill out. It's like winning the lotto compared to real things you do have to be careful of, like you're friend being scammed and passing it on. Or them not knowing what they are talking about for market value. OR them not realising their own debt. Or business disagreements that no one could see coming. It's a whole different story to OP.

by erikb 8y ago

bryanrasmussen 8y ago

I think I must not be a people, because my brain does generally work that way. Perhaps it can be that some peoples' brains work one way and others another way, and perhaps there are multiple ways of working.

erikb 8y ago
Can you explain how that works out? Like, do you have virtual checklists and for everything you experience over the day your head goes "check check check -> we must be in event X"? It's really hard to imagine. What I already know is emotional pattern matching. E.g. one smells a spice that one's mother used as a child and one is immediately transferred back to that time. In that way if one recognizes that high excitement is often related to advertisements or scams one might recognize when one feels that way that something might be fishy. Or what I also know is path recognition. E.g. "at first we did this, then we did this, then we did this, and therefore we arrived at X". In that way we can remember processes like riding a bike or our way home. That's also how memory palaces work.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  Experience helps a lot. For example, I will never give money to a Buddhist monk walking the streets asking for donations, er, ever again. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-09/victorians-warned-against-donating-to-shameless-fake-charities/6008622 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-09/victorians-warned-aga... "Genuine monks do have a practice of having gifts or giving alms as part of their religion but it is meant to be a generous donation of those who wish to give without any solicitation whatsoever." In a similar way, I'd never work for another startup again. While I'm sure many startups have great intentions, others are out and out scams, and the vast majority will never break even enough to pay you the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that they promised you. Once burned, twice shy etc.
  - mikekchar 8y ago
    I was once waiting to board an airplane and a Buddhist monk sat beside me. I had a glance at him and notice a rolex watch. "That's odd", I thought. But sometimes Buddhist monks have stuff like that. And then I noticed that he hadn't shaved his head. Or his beard. "That's odd", I thought. But different orders do different things. And then he got called up to the desk and the attendant asked him, "I'm sorry sir, but I noticed that you didn't have a the vegetarian meal ordered. Would you like me to order one for you?". He said, "No thank you." "That's odd", I thought, but even monks have free choice in their meals. And then some guards with sniffer dogs walked up to him and took him away. "Oh. Not so odd after all".
    - erikb 8y ago
      Well, well. You still have a lot to learn, my Padawan. The better answer is not "that's odd" but "we'll see". ;-) http://buddhistinspiration.blogspot.com/2011/12/well-see-zen-story.html http://buddhistinspiration.blogspot.com/2011/12/well-see-zen...
- bryanrasmussen 8y ago
  I believe it is more like path or pattern recognition, I have read about X + Y + Z, I experience something that has X + Y + Z, I think that reminds me of something what is it? My past reading flashes for me and then I start to draw conclusions about what I am experiencing. As a general rule I don't seem to require it to have been an example based communication, or a personal communication on the subject, but just an abstract description can be enough for me to say - hey this situation seems like a subclass of the general class described in that book of scams I read. Maybe I should think about that! That's all I took exception to, that abstract descriptions of things would not be helpful without concrete examples because people don't find abstract descriptions helpful enough. I tend to find them helpful. that said I have never experienced this smell a spice or eat a food thing and immediately remember that time years ago. To me that seems like bs, but I guess it must happen so many people talk about it.

aaron695 8y ago

This is not really relevant at all. Scammers are people you don't know. They can't really be your friend, cause you know, they scam people so either you know they are dodgy or they are really desperate since you've never seen them scam before. A friend who scamming you is like a suicide bomber, there's little you can do and it never happens off the news. So chill out. It's like winning the lotto compared to real things you do have to be careful of, like you're friend being scammed and passing it on. Or them not knowing what they are talking about for market value. OR them not realising their own debt. Or business disagreements that no one could see coming. It's a whole different story to OP.