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In the Netherlands they’ve just reversed subsidies for electric vehicles, increasing bijtelling for them which makes them a lot more expensive for business purc

by davedx 8y ago

In the Netherlands they’ve just reversed subsidies for electric vehicles, increasing bijtelling for them which makes them a lot more expensive for business purchases and leases. It’s a step backwards.

rapnie 8y ago
Yes, it is very frustrating. The Dutch are exceptionally good at talking the talk, when it comes to renewable energy transition, having years-long talk about the opportunity to become the best, most innovative player (e.g. in solar), and then not walking the walk. Suddenly stopping subsidies because of 'unprecedented success' is the norm, leaving all businesses who had invested out in the cold. Netherlands is now a laggard in sustainable energy in the EU. I guess we have 'pro-business' liberal-democratic ruling party (VVD) and greenwashing-only companies such as Shell to thank for that. They prefer 'lobbycracy' above democracy.
- avar 8y ago
  Electric vehicles are excempt from the road tax in The Netherlands. E.g. in Nord-Holland you'd pay 1400 EUR/yr just in road tolls for a Tesla Model S (according to my searching around 2,250 kg), but you pay 0 EUR because it's an EV under the current policy. Over a period of some years this easily adds up to what other countries such as the US have been paying out in EV subsidies, add to that that fossil fuels are much more expensive than say the US and it's a very significant subsidy.
- CalRobert 8y ago
  Given that the thought of the Netherlands conjures images of happy families in bakfiets {and jealousy on my part) I was startled to learn their per capita greenhouse gas emissions are among the worst in the EU.
  - ovi256 8y ago
    They're an almost completely urban population with a high standard of living. Of course that needs energy and greenshouse emissions to make happen.
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Urburnites claim that city living is cleaner (co2 wise) that living in the country
      - CalRobert 8y ago
        Living near the people and things you need, walking, cycling, and taking electrified public transport to said things, and multi-family dwellings allowing the use of district heating (or heat pumps powered by renewable energy) can drastically reduce your carbon footprint compared to living in the burbs and driving to everything. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/mar/23/city-dwellers-smaller-carbon-footprints https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/mar/23/city-dwe... Of course, you _can_ have a low carbon footprint in the country, but it's really hard, because those places are hostile to cycling and walking.
    - MagnumOpus 8y ago
      An urban population should emit less GHG than the same population being spread out. And standard of living is not that much different from Denmark (20% less) or the UK (30% less).
      - ovi256 8y ago
        You're right for the Netherlands and the developped countries, of course. I confused this rural pop with developping countries' rural pop, which of course is a lot less energy intensive. As for the standard of living differences, are those numbers similar to the energy-per-capita differences between the same countries ?
  - mcv 8y ago
    Our many consecutive right-wing governments aren't very eager to meet our CO2 reduction targets. Bad for business, they think. Some tax reduction for electric vehicles and green electricity is the best we got, and they're constantly looking for an excuse to end those. A big incentive for electric cars comes from cities, though: in Amsterdam, if you get an electric car, you get an electric charging spot in front of your house, which is effectively a private parking spot if you're the only one with an electric car. With the constant shortage of parking spots, this is huge.
cmrdporcupine 8y ago
Same in Ontario, our generous EV subsidy was killed by the new right-wing-populist provincial gov't, cap'n'trade eliminated (leaving a $3b hole in the budget), and various green programmes turfed. Then they had the gall to turn around and promote the fact that Ontario has dropped its CO2 emissions by 25% in the last 10 years. All due to the actions of the previous government that they railed against with "lock her up" type chants.
evandijk70 8y ago
The reversal is only for cars priced over 50 000 euro (~ 57000 usd). Even for those cars, you can still get the subsidy for the amount up to 50 000 euro. The subsidy mostly helped people get a Tesla Model S as a company car. And it is still subsidized for about 17% of 50k, which is 8000 euro a year. While the Tesla Model S is more environmentally friendly than a similar sized gasoline car, buying of smaller electric cars (like the volkswagen e-golf, tesla model 3, etc) should be encouraged more. I don't think it was a bad idea to cap the subsidy at 50 000 euro.
- davedx 8y ago
  Fair point, I forgot about the cap. The Model 3 is arriving just in time for Tesla sales.

by davedx 8y ago

rapnie 8y ago

Yes, it is very frustrating. The Dutch are exceptionally good at talking the talk, when it comes to renewable energy transition, having years-long talk about the opportunity to become the best, most innovative player (e.g. in solar), and then not walking the walk. Suddenly stopping subsidies because of 'unprecedented success' is the norm, leaving all businesses who had invested out in the cold. Netherlands is now a laggard in sustainable energy in the EU. I guess we have 'pro-business' liberal-democratic ruling party (VVD) and greenwashing-only companies such as Shell to thank for that. They prefer 'lobbycracy' above democracy.

avar 8y ago
Electric vehicles are excempt from the road tax in The Netherlands. E.g. in Nord-Holland you'd pay 1400 EUR/yr just in road tolls for a Tesla Model S (according to my searching around 2,250 kg), but you pay 0 EUR because it's an EV under the current policy. Over a period of some years this easily adds up to what other countries such as the US have been paying out in EV subsidies, add to that that fossil fuels are much more expensive than say the US and it's a very significant subsidy.
CalRobert 8y ago
Given that the thought of the Netherlands conjures images of happy families in bakfiets {and jealousy on my part) I was startled to learn their per capita greenhouse gas emissions are among the worst in the EU.
- ovi256 8y ago
  They're an almost completely urban population with a high standard of living. Of course that needs energy and greenshouse emissions to make happen.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Urburnites claim that city living is cleaner (co2 wise) that living in the country
    - CalRobert 8y ago
      Living near the people and things you need, walking, cycling, and taking electrified public transport to said things, and multi-family dwellings allowing the use of district heating (or heat pumps powered by renewable energy) can drastically reduce your carbon footprint compared to living in the burbs and driving to everything. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/mar/23/city-dwellers-smaller-carbon-footprints https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/mar/23/city-dwe... Of course, you _can_ have a low carbon footprint in the country, but it's really hard, because those places are hostile to cycling and walking.
  - MagnumOpus 8y ago
    An urban population should emit less GHG than the same population being spread out. And standard of living is not that much different from Denmark (20% less) or the UK (30% less).
    - ovi256 8y ago
      You're right for the Netherlands and the developped countries, of course. I confused this rural pop with developping countries' rural pop, which of course is a lot less energy intensive. As for the standard of living differences, are those numbers similar to the energy-per-capita differences between the same countries ?
- mcv 8y ago
  Our many consecutive right-wing governments aren't very eager to meet our CO2 reduction targets. Bad for business, they think. Some tax reduction for electric vehicles and green electricity is the best we got, and they're constantly looking for an excuse to end those. A big incentive for electric cars comes from cities, though: in Amsterdam, if you get an electric car, you get an electric charging spot in front of your house, which is effectively a private parking spot if you're the only one with an electric car. With the constant shortage of parking spots, this is huge.

cmrdporcupine 8y ago

Same in Ontario, our generous EV subsidy was killed by the new right-wing-populist provincial gov't, cap'n'trade eliminated (leaving a $3b hole in the budget), and various green programmes turfed. Then they had the gall to turn around and promote the fact that Ontario has dropped its CO2 emissions by 25% in the last 10 years. All due to the actions of the previous government that they railed against with "lock her up" type chants.

evandijk70 8y ago

The reversal is only for cars priced over 50 000 euro (~ 57000 usd). Even for those cars, you can still get the subsidy for the amount up to 50 000 euro. The subsidy mostly helped people get a Tesla Model S as a company car. And it is still subsidized for about 17% of 50k, which is 8000 euro a year. While the Tesla Model S is more environmentally friendly than a similar sized gasoline car, buying of smaller electric cars (like the volkswagen e-golf, tesla model 3, etc) should be encouraged more. I don't think it was a bad idea to cap the subsidy at 50 000 euro.

davedx 8y ago
Fair point, I forgot about the cap. The Model 3 is arriving just in time for Tesla sales.