9 ms·

It’s funny. I know the front-facing camera followed demand and was at least partially meant for things like FaceTime and taking photos with friends. But it also

It’s funny. I know the front-facing camera followed demand and was at least partially meant for things like FaceTime and taking photos with friends. But it also fed back into and catalyzed the normalization and popularization of selfies and vanity. Throughout most of my life, we would break out physical photo albums or an occasional VHS to reminisce. They’d be group photos, vacation pictures, captured moments from a birthday or wedding. I can’t imagine how we would react to a friend pulling out a photo album that contained the stuff many popular Instagram accounts post. They would seem psychotically narcissistic. Yet, we aren’t that far removed in time from selfie sticks being a joke. And it feels like we are an eternity apart in how our attitudes have adjusted.

xapata 8y ago
Portraits have always been one of the most common subjects in art. In the Renaissance, many were commissioned by the subject(s). Technology has simply made it easier.
- pessimizer 8y ago
  Selfies are not art, but self-portraits are also not one of the most common subjects in art. Specializing in self-portraits made you strange and interesting, like a Cindy Sherman, and definitely made you look self-obsessed, which played into the interpretation.
  - xapata 8y ago
    Do you distinguish paying an artist to paint your portrait from a self-portrait? Both are selfies in my mind.
    - EForEndeavour 8y ago
      They're about as different as taking a horse-drawn wagon to the next town over versus riding there yourself on a racing motorbike.
      - xapata 8y ago
        Sure. Either way it's the same motivation. Technology didn't give us the desire to have a picture of ourselves.
  - mr_spothawk 8y ago
    > Selfies are not art ... clearly you've never seen my selfies.
rcruzeiro 8y ago
I distinctively remember a picture of a Chinese lady using a contraption to use a camera to take pictures of herself in some touristic site. This was captioned "the loneliest tourist in the world". This picture was quite famous a few years ago. Nowadays that kind of contraption is so common place that no one thinks twice upon seeing it.
- atom-morgan 8y ago
  I totally forgot about this. How quickly norms change.
- crdoconnor 8y ago
  I remember that too. She was at Angkor Wat.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
This is silly. Before selfies you just had to ask someone else to photograph you, either a friend or a stranger, or carry a tripod, or have n-1 people in the photo. Stealing a camera that someone asked to be photographed with is an old trope of travel literature. Vanity was not invented 10 years ago
- pessimizer 8y ago
  If somebody had a hundred pictures of themselves before the cellphone camera, you would have thought they were insane - especially if they thought you were interested in looking at them. I'm not sure my parents took more than a few hundred pictures of me the entire time I was growing up. You've been Overton'd, and you think that something that was sold to you is something that is spontaneous or natural.
  - artursapek 8y ago
    It's because photos cost virtually nothing these days, compared to the film photography of your childhood. People also have hundreds of photos of lattes, food, cats, their friends, and all kinds of other stuff that makes them happy.
    - kochikame 8y ago
      Taking photos of things you are interested in is, for me, fine. It's easy to take photos and we can all snap those flowers, beers, sights etc. that we like. Taking photos of yourself, on the other hand, just seems to me to be grossly narcissistic. Like, why have thousands of photos of yourself in your phone? Super weird IMO
      - null000 8y ago
        This assumes the photos of yourself are for you. Sometimes other people do genuinely want to see you in a photo. I like seeing my friends and family in pictures, and they like seeing me in pictures. You can take it to an extreme, but a lot of the, frankly, bordering on self-righteous conversation around selfies on HN tends to imply, intentionally or no, that any selfies == gross narcissism instead of, you know, a genuine way to connect to people in the present and to connect in with the past once you're a few years out.
paganel 8y ago
> Yet, we aren’t that far removed in time from selfie sticks being a joke. I totally agree with your post, just wanted to say that it is my feeling that selfie sticks are on a "downward trajectory", so to speak, as I haven't recently seen as many people using them as 3-4 years ago. The same goes for the GoPro-like photos/videos.
vonseel 8y ago
Yeah, nowadays it’s incredibly common to see someone post something with a caption like “My friends are cooler than yours.”. I’m not sure what part of that is funny, friendly, or mildly appropriate for a social website. It is off-putting and makes me dislike the person who says it.
village-idiot 8y ago
Part of that is volume. The value of a given recording of your life to you drops with the quantity of recordings.
pm90 8y ago
> They’d be group photos, vacation pictures, captured moments from a birthday or wedding. I can’t imagine how we would react to a friend pulling out a photo album that contained the stuff many popular Instagram accounts post. They would seem psychotically narcissistic. Well, the sad truth is that the world is lot lonelier than it used to be before. As someone who doesn't care much about being social, I personally like the fact that I no longer need to depend on others to take pictures that I find to be interesting.
- selestify 8y ago
  Why is the world lonelier than before when we have so many more means to connect with one another nowadays?
  - ddalex 8y ago
    Because of the New York effect. The personal information density is so high that we tune it out automatically as not to be overwhelmed. Outside privacy cannot be maintained so we strengthen the inner one, by not paying attention to other humans. Go to New York and you'll bump into people every 5 steps you'll take, but you'll just ignore them and they will ignore you. There will be no meaningful relationship there, others may be furniture, just as well. So we get more lonely as we get more connected. Personally I think our jungle - evoluted monkey brains are not capable of dealing with so many social connections, as we used to live in smaller groups, of 30 or so. So we just tune out the overwhelming information.
  - pm90 8y ago
    My completely unscientific take is that its an unholy combination of deteriorating worker protections + social media addictions. So even though there are more avenues to connect with each other most people: * rely on social media to try and satisfy their need for bonding with others * just don't have as much free time as they did before, because they have to work harder/more jobs to stay afloat
grecy 8y ago
I was recently at a place with baby elephants, and it was staggering to watch hordes of young white women turn their backs on the elephants to take selfies. I've been in Africa so long I have not seen a person do that for well over a year, and it struck me as seriously odd.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  It seems like that type of photo is a requirement on some dating apps.
- r_c_a_d 8y ago
  I find it odd too. I was in a crowded art gallery recently and grew increasingly angry at the number of people who were either taking selfies next to the paintings or standing as close as possible to get pictures of the paintings... without actually looking at the paintings directly at all. The occasional "I was here" picture is fine, but why even go to a gallery to just to prove that you were there? It's way beyond simple vanity.

xapata 8y ago

Portraits have always been one of the most common subjects in art. In the Renaissance, many were commissioned by the subject(s). Technology has simply made it easier.

pessimizer 8y ago
Selfies are not art, but self-portraits are also not one of the most common subjects in art. Specializing in self-portraits made you strange and interesting, like a Cindy Sherman, and definitely made you look self-obsessed, which played into the interpretation.
- xapata 8y ago
  Do you distinguish paying an artist to paint your portrait from a self-portrait? Both are selfies in my mind.
  - EForEndeavour 8y ago
    They're about as different as taking a horse-drawn wagon to the next town over versus riding there yourself on a racing motorbike.
    - xapata 8y ago
      Sure. Either way it's the same motivation. Technology didn't give us the desire to have a picture of ourselves.
- mr_spothawk 8y ago
  > Selfies are not art ... clearly you've never seen my selfies.

rcruzeiro 8y ago

I distinctively remember a picture of a Chinese lady using a contraption to use a camera to take pictures of herself in some touristic site. This was captioned "the loneliest tourist in the world". This picture was quite famous a few years ago. Nowadays that kind of contraption is so common place that no one thinks twice upon seeing it.

atom-morgan 8y ago
I totally forgot about this. How quickly norms change.
crdoconnor 8y ago
I remember that too. She was at Angkor Wat.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

This is silly. Before selfies you just had to ask someone else to photograph you, either a friend or a stranger, or carry a tripod, or have n-1 people in the photo. Stealing a camera that someone asked to be photographed with is an old trope of travel literature. Vanity was not invented 10 years ago

pessimizer 8y ago
If somebody had a hundred pictures of themselves before the cellphone camera, you would have thought they were insane - especially if they thought you were interested in looking at them. I'm not sure my parents took more than a few hundred pictures of me the entire time I was growing up. You've been Overton'd, and you think that something that was sold to you is something that is spontaneous or natural.
- artursapek 8y ago
  It's because photos cost virtually nothing these days, compared to the film photography of your childhood. People also have hundreds of photos of lattes, food, cats, their friends, and all kinds of other stuff that makes them happy.
  - kochikame 8y ago
    Taking photos of things you are interested in is, for me, fine. It's easy to take photos and we can all snap those flowers, beers, sights etc. that we like. Taking photos of yourself, on the other hand, just seems to me to be grossly narcissistic. Like, why have thousands of photos of yourself in your phone? Super weird IMO
    - null000 8y ago
      This assumes the photos of yourself are for you. Sometimes other people do genuinely want to see you in a photo. I like seeing my friends and family in pictures, and they like seeing me in pictures. You can take it to an extreme, but a lot of the, frankly, bordering on self-righteous conversation around selfies on HN tends to imply, intentionally or no, that any selfies == gross narcissism instead of, you know, a genuine way to connect to people in the present and to connect in with the past once you're a few years out.

paganel 8y ago

> Yet, we aren’t that far removed in time from selfie sticks being a joke. I totally agree with your post, just wanted to say that it is my feeling that selfie sticks are on a "downward trajectory", so to speak, as I haven't recently seen as many people using them as 3-4 years ago. The same goes for the GoPro-like photos/videos.

vonseel 8y ago

Yeah, nowadays it’s incredibly common to see someone post something with a caption like “My friends are cooler than yours.”. I’m not sure what part of that is funny, friendly, or mildly appropriate for a social website. It is off-putting and makes me dislike the person who says it.

village-idiot 8y ago

Part of that is volume. The value of a given recording of your life to you drops with the quantity of recordings.

pm90 8y ago

> They’d be group photos, vacation pictures, captured moments from a birthday or wedding. I can’t imagine how we would react to a friend pulling out a photo album that contained the stuff many popular Instagram accounts post. They would seem psychotically narcissistic. Well, the sad truth is that the world is lot lonelier than it used to be before. As someone who doesn't care much about being social, I personally like the fact that I no longer need to depend on others to take pictures that I find to be interesting.

selestify 8y ago
Why is the world lonelier than before when we have so many more means to connect with one another nowadays?
- ddalex 8y ago
  Because of the New York effect. The personal information density is so high that we tune it out automatically as not to be overwhelmed. Outside privacy cannot be maintained so we strengthen the inner one, by not paying attention to other humans. Go to New York and you'll bump into people every 5 steps you'll take, but you'll just ignore them and they will ignore you. There will be no meaningful relationship there, others may be furniture, just as well. So we get more lonely as we get more connected. Personally I think our jungle - evoluted monkey brains are not capable of dealing with so many social connections, as we used to live in smaller groups, of 30 or so. So we just tune out the overwhelming information.
- pm90 8y ago
  My completely unscientific take is that its an unholy combination of deteriorating worker protections + social media addictions. So even though there are more avenues to connect with each other most people: * rely on social media to try and satisfy their need for bonding with others * just don't have as much free time as they did before, because they have to work harder/more jobs to stay afloat

grecy 8y ago

I was recently at a place with baby elephants, and it was staggering to watch hordes of young white women turn their backs on the elephants to take selfies. I've been in Africa so long I have not seen a person do that for well over a year, and it struck me as seriously odd.

paulie_a 8y ago
It seems like that type of photo is a requirement on some dating apps.
r_c_a_d 8y ago
I find it odd too. I was in a crowded art gallery recently and grew increasingly angry at the number of people who were either taking selfies next to the paintings or standing as close as possible to get pictures of the paintings... without actually looking at the paintings directly at all. The occasional "I was here" picture is fine, but why even go to a gallery to just to prove that you were there? It's way beyond simple vanity.