5 ms·

Free speech means no one is forced to do business with nazis.

dmerfield 8y ago
No it doesn’t. Free speech means allowing nazis to express themselves so you and others can understand nazism. If you’re genuinely interested in understanding the principle of free speech, I recommend this as an introduction: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/
- jarfil 8y ago
  Yes it does. Free speech means not stopping Nazis from expressing themselves, it doesn't mean you have to help them express themselves. If you want to express something I don't like, then I'm not gonna try to silence you, but other than that you're on your own.
  - ComputerGuru 8y ago
    > Yes it does. Free speech means not stopping Nazis from expressing themselves, it doesn't mean you have to help them express themselves. I'm sorry, but I don't see where @dmerfield says what you are arguing against. Quoting @dmerfild for posterity: > No it doesn’t. Free speech means allowing nazis to express themselves so you and others can understand nazism. --- Interestingly, in most of Europe, "Free Speech" does not include this right. It is pretty uniquely American.
    - jarfil 8y ago
      Let's also quote @empath75 which @dmerfild is answering to: > Free speech means no one is forced to do business with nazis.
    - jstanley 8y ago
      Right, but the "Ministry of Truth" isn't about truth either. Actual free speech would, quite obviously, not depend on the content of the speech.
  - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
    > Yes it does No it does not. The principle of free speech says nothing about who you are forced to do or not do business with. It only affects expression after all.
    - jarfil 8y ago
      So you agree.
      - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
        I do not agree with "Yes it does" (and thus that "Free speech means no one is forced to do business with nazis"), I agree with the rest however (which is basically the same as what dmerfield said).
  - kingofhdds 8y ago
    In general, you are right (excluding the usage of word "Nazi"): private entity can deny services to other entity. However, in legal practice there are exceptions to to the rule, e.g. when the entity which denies is a monopoly (even locally defined), or services are too essential. I'm not in position to decide if it applies to the situation described, but worth keeping in mind that there are limits.
    - otterley 8y ago
      There are no common carriers on the Internet at Layer 7 AFAIK.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cannedslime 8y ago
It apparently also means that you are free to brand anyone you disagree with as "nazis". Just like I can freely say that any self-proclaimed "empath" is with all likelyhood just another sociopath.
- dang 8y ago
  It looks like you've reverted to using HN primarily for ideological battle, and worse things like race trolling. If you keep doing that, we're going to ban you, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - cannedslime 8y ago
    I guess I crossed a line. I swear im not racetrolling, but even I know that AIPAC is pretty infuental, its in the name that its zionist, its not even a conspiracy theory really. I will refrain from anything politics related on this site in the future, even if many subjects on here are political in nature.
buboard 8y ago
i think you mean "free trade". Hmm in this case, some users want to trade with the content producer, but it seems the entire market is hellbent to not allow them to do so. How do you justify that situation as "free"?
shard972 8y ago
Does Free speech means no one is forced to do business with gays? Or transexuals? Or Blacks?
- danso 8y ago
  Federal law protects sexuality and race from discriminatory business and employment practices.

No it doesn’t. Free speech means allowing nazis to express themselves so you and others can understand nazism. If you’re genuinely interested in understanding the principle of free speech, I recommend this as an introduction: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/

jarfil 8y ago
Yes it does. Free speech means not stopping Nazis from expressing themselves, it doesn't mean you have to help them express themselves. If you want to express something I don't like, then I'm not gonna try to silence you, but other than that you're on your own.
- ComputerGuru 8y ago
  > Yes it does. Free speech means not stopping Nazis from expressing themselves, it doesn't mean you have to help them express themselves. I'm sorry, but I don't see where @dmerfield says what you are arguing against. Quoting @dmerfild for posterity: > No it doesn’t. Free speech means allowing nazis to express themselves so you and others can understand nazism. --- Interestingly, in most of Europe, "Free Speech" does not include this right. It is pretty uniquely American.
  - jarfil 8y ago
    Let's also quote @empath75 which @dmerfild is answering to: > Free speech means no one is forced to do business with nazis.
  - jstanley 8y ago
    Right, but the "Ministry of Truth" isn't about truth either. Actual free speech would, quite obviously, not depend on the content of the speech.
- AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
  > Yes it does No it does not. The principle of free speech says nothing about who you are forced to do or not do business with. It only affects expression after all.
  - jarfil 8y ago
    So you agree.
    - AnaniasAnanas 8y ago
      I do not agree with "Yes it does" (and thus that "Free speech means no one is forced to do business with nazis"), I agree with the rest however (which is basically the same as what dmerfield said).
- kingofhdds 8y ago
  In general, you are right (excluding the usage of word "Nazi"): private entity can deny services to other entity. However, in legal practice there are exceptions to to the rule, e.g. when the entity which denies is a monopoly (even locally defined), or services are too essential. I'm not in position to decide if it applies to the situation described, but worth keeping in mind that there are limits.
  - otterley 8y ago
    There are no common carriers on the Internet at Layer 7 AFAIK.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

cannedslime 8y ago

It apparently also means that you are free to brand anyone you disagree with as "nazis". Just like I can freely say that any self-proclaimed "empath" is with all likelyhood just another sociopath.

dang 8y ago
It looks like you've reverted to using HN primarily for ideological battle, and worse things like race trolling. If you keep doing that, we're going to ban you, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cannedslime 8y ago
  I guess I crossed a line. I swear im not racetrolling, but even I know that AIPAC is pretty infuental, its in the name that its zionist, its not even a conspiracy theory really. I will refrain from anything politics related on this site in the future, even if many subjects on here are political in nature.

buboard 8y ago

i think you mean "free trade". Hmm in this case, some users want to trade with the content producer, but it seems the entire market is hellbent to not allow them to do so. How do you justify that situation as "free"?

shard972 8y ago

Does Free speech means no one is forced to do business with gays? Or transexuals? Or Blacks?

danso 8y ago
Federal law protects sexuality and race from discriminatory business and employment practices.