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If you look at homes in America the solar panels are these big heavy lumbersome things. They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view. These p

If you look at homes in America the solar panels are these big heavy lumbersome things. They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view. These panels are really v1 of the solar panels for homes. You need solar shingles as the true means to maximize solar in homes. Hopefully those will come within the next decade. For now I will avoid solar power.

loueed 8y ago
Tesla is already manufacturing solar shingles, they use tempered glass and are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles https://www.tesla.com/solarroof https://www.tesla.com/solarroof
- sys_64738 8y ago
  Tesla means massive expense.
  - njarboe 8y ago
    But not a lot more than regular roof + panels. Tesla tiles are the roof surface.
- heimatau 8y ago
  Wiring up their solar shingles isn't cost effective due to labor. Their solar roofs is a negative income stream for Tesla. When is the last time you heard the Solar Roof grow into 'record breaking growth'? It hasn't and it won't because Tesla is still trying to make the labor expense cheaper. Look into the labor it takes to install an entire Solar Roof vs installing a new roof plus traditional solar installation. On a dollar for dollar basis, it may look competitive but Tesla is selling their Solar Roof's at a loss. Tesla is selling their Solar Roof at a loss. Not at a profit. It's labor intensive and they aren't growing at a fast rate because of that hidden expense. Disclosure: I installed around 200kw of solar panels and did a decent amount of research into Tesla's Solar Roof since it seemed so novel and innovative. The wiring of the Solar Roof is much more complicated than what is publicly understood. Tesla's good at PR because most of the public are superficial in their understanding. Tesla most likely saves a lot of money in the manufacturing process of the solar shingles but they lose money due to their complicated wire installation process. How are those shingles connected on the underside? How are those wires protected from the elements, without affecting the plywood on the roof? Etc. These are simple questions that are often overlooked.
  - mrfusion 8y ago
    I question why wiring should be labor intensive? Why not lay wires across the sub roof first that the panels clip into? Or another idea is have the panels pass power between themselves to a single output connection point?
    - heimatau 8y ago
      Great questions. Tesla's problem isn't by intention. It's by NEC (and local) code requirement. For the second question, why not lay it across the sub roof: Water can be very damaging. What insures those wires (over 20-30 years) will not be damaged? For a conventional solar installation the wires are elevated and protected due to the cavity of each panel. Local codes generally require that no wires touch the rooftop, so that prevents the daily ware/tare. As for the latter idea, I do believe that's Tesla main goal. But to practically do this is an engineering feat that hasn't been solved yet. Can Tesla do it? Sure. But I haven't seen them invest in a solution yet. Heck, Elon is focusing on too much and not fixing this issue. It's okay, he's got bigger fish to fry. But since it's not solved, they will continue to live with this problem.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    There's plenty of companies other than Tesla offering solar roof tiles who aren't selling at a loss. Wiring seems to be a simple case of plugging them in. How do Tesla manage to make this complex or labour intensive? First one that cropped up in search: http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-roof-tiles/ http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-roof-tiles/ In the UK, mounting solar on top of the tiles is far more common as roofs are rarely replaced.
    - heimatau 8y ago
      Wow. The UK link you provide is running at about ~$7.65 per watt. That's extreme/exorbitant plus their tiles look ugly and I doubt the resell value on the home will be as high as a Tesla Solar Roof (since aesthetics are king on homes). Currently, even in Cali a solar system ranges at about $4-5 per watt. The cost to redo a roof depends on the size but almost certainly it would be cheaper than the extra $2.65-3.65 watt left over on using a conventional system and less long-term liability to homeowner to replace a roof and do conventional solar.
Faaak 8y ago
What are you even talking about ? Integrated solar panels have at least 10 years of existence
- sys_64738 8y ago
  I'm talking about solar shingles. The technology might be there but the cost is not which is why it'll take at least 10 years to be energy efficient.
andys627 8y ago
> solar panels are these big heavy lumbersome things Not really, compared to other systems in your house. Take HVAC... big metal furnaces burning gas within the conditioned space with tubes/duscts strung through the walls, attics, and crawl spaces. This system is way more cumbersome. Bolting some panels on the roof is probably one of the easiest retrofits you can do. Source - I redo houses. > They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view To me the leafy suburb view gets a lot uglier if you think about the massive consumption it requires compared to only slightly denser options (eg streetcar suburbs). It only works because of massive gov't subsidy (basically by not putting a price on carbon emissions). We Americans need to get over single occupancy car dependency. It is an environmental disaster. It is also a health (drive everywhere, don't walk/get implicit exercise) and social disaster (socio-economic stratification).
greglindahl 8y ago
Panasonic has been selling "low profile" solar panels for a while, here's Tesla's page for them: https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels These aren't the Tesla shingles, and aren't that much more expensive than conventional panels.
taneq 8y ago
> They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view. This is highly subjective, though. Where I live, most houses have solar panels and they're just part of the appearance of a house. Unless your installer botched the job, solar panels just look like lower power bills and environmental responsibility.

loueed 8y ago

Tesla is already manufacturing solar shingles, they use tempered glass and are more than three times stronger than standard roofing tiles https://www.tesla.com/solarroof https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

sys_64738 8y ago
Tesla means massive expense.
- njarboe 8y ago
  But not a lot more than regular roof + panels. Tesla tiles are the roof surface.
heimatau 8y ago
Wiring up their solar shingles isn't cost effective due to labor. Their solar roofs is a negative income stream for Tesla. When is the last time you heard the Solar Roof grow into 'record breaking growth'? It hasn't and it won't because Tesla is still trying to make the labor expense cheaper. Look into the labor it takes to install an entire Solar Roof vs installing a new roof plus traditional solar installation. On a dollar for dollar basis, it may look competitive but Tesla is selling their Solar Roof's at a loss. Tesla is selling their Solar Roof at a loss. Not at a profit. It's labor intensive and they aren't growing at a fast rate because of that hidden expense. Disclosure: I installed around 200kw of solar panels and did a decent amount of research into Tesla's Solar Roof since it seemed so novel and innovative. The wiring of the Solar Roof is much more complicated than what is publicly understood. Tesla's good at PR because most of the public are superficial in their understanding. Tesla most likely saves a lot of money in the manufacturing process of the solar shingles but they lose money due to their complicated wire installation process. How are those shingles connected on the underside? How are those wires protected from the elements, without affecting the plywood on the roof? Etc. These are simple questions that are often overlooked.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  I question why wiring should be labor intensive? Why not lay wires across the sub roof first that the panels clip into? Or another idea is have the panels pass power between themselves to a single output connection point?
  - heimatau 8y ago
    Great questions. Tesla's problem isn't by intention. It's by NEC (and local) code requirement. For the second question, why not lay it across the sub roof: Water can be very damaging. What insures those wires (over 20-30 years) will not be damaged? For a conventional solar installation the wires are elevated and protected due to the cavity of each panel. Local codes generally require that no wires touch the rooftop, so that prevents the daily ware/tare. As for the latter idea, I do believe that's Tesla main goal. But to practically do this is an engineering feat that hasn't been solved yet. Can Tesla do it? Sure. But I haven't seen them invest in a solution yet. Heck, Elon is focusing on too much and not fixing this issue. It's okay, he's got bigger fish to fry. But since it's not solved, they will continue to live with this problem.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  There's plenty of companies other than Tesla offering solar roof tiles who aren't selling at a loss. Wiring seems to be a simple case of plugging them in. How do Tesla manage to make this complex or labour intensive? First one that cropped up in search: http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-roof-tiles/ http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-roof-tiles/ In the UK, mounting solar on top of the tiles is far more common as roofs are rarely replaced.
  - heimatau 8y ago
    Wow. The UK link you provide is running at about ~$7.65 per watt. That's extreme/exorbitant plus their tiles look ugly and I doubt the resell value on the home will be as high as a Tesla Solar Roof (since aesthetics are king on homes). Currently, even in Cali a solar system ranges at about $4-5 per watt. The cost to redo a roof depends on the size but almost certainly it would be cheaper than the extra $2.65-3.65 watt left over on using a conventional system and less long-term liability to homeowner to replace a roof and do conventional solar.

Faaak 8y ago

What are you even talking about ? Integrated solar panels have at least 10 years of existence

sys_64738 8y ago
I'm talking about solar shingles. The technology might be there but the cost is not which is why it'll take at least 10 years to be energy efficient.

andys627 8y ago

> solar panels are these big heavy lumbersome things Not really, compared to other systems in your house. Take HVAC... big metal furnaces burning gas within the conditioned space with tubes/duscts strung through the walls, attics, and crawl spaces. This system is way more cumbersome. Bolting some panels on the roof is probably one of the easiest retrofits you can do. Source - I redo houses. > They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view To me the leafy suburb view gets a lot uglier if you think about the massive consumption it requires compared to only slightly denser options (eg streetcar suburbs). It only works because of massive gov't subsidy (basically by not putting a price on carbon emissions). We Americans need to get over single occupancy car dependency. It is an environmental disaster. It is also a health (drive everywhere, don't walk/get implicit exercise) and social disaster (socio-economic stratification).

greglindahl 8y ago

Panasonic has been selling "low profile" solar panels for a while, here's Tesla's page for them: https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels https://www.tesla.com/solarpanels These aren't the Tesla shingles, and aren't that much more expensive than conventional panels.

taneq 8y ago

> They're unsightly to look at and devalues the leafy suburb view. This is highly subjective, though. Where I live, most houses have solar panels and they're just part of the appearance of a house. Unless your installer botched the job, solar panels just look like lower power bills and environmental responsibility.