8 ms·

The real inconvenient truth is that marriage still works best as 'an economic institution designed to build wealth and raise children'. It is the best vehicle

The real inconvenient truth is that marriage still works best as 'an economic institution designed to build wealth and raise children'. It is the best vehicle we have designed for doing those things; other arrangements have proven sub-optimal. It may also accommodate other needs, but those are secondary. Ironically, those who realize this tend to have happier, more loving marriages.

k__ 8y ago
What are the other arrangements? Couldn't we simply have tax breaks per children and be done with it?
- geezerjay 8y ago
  Tax breaks doesn't help share both parenting tasks and paeenting influence.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  The most common other arrangement in this society is serial monogamy (the original comment by marchenko means "stable marriage is the best", not "a bunch of marriages in a row are the best".) In other cultures, the most common other arrangement is to give the child's mother's brother (uncle) all the rights and responsibilities that we give to the biological father/husband. The uncle rears the child, with the mother. Marriage can exist in those societies but gives no rights over the child, and no or few responsibilities. (Might be time to consider offering this as an option for people in this society, at least.) Children are little consoled by tax breaks, in my experience. Single mothers can't stay home on a tax break, since there's no income to get that break from.
  - WaddyJones 8y ago
    Is being raised by ones uncle really more popular than being raised by ones grandparents, on a global scale? Somehow I doubt it. In many Asian countries being raised by grandparents is the norm but being raised by an uncle would be more of an uncommon arrangement.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      By unique societies studied, over time - not by numbers of individuals. This is what I was told in Anthropology class.
      - Robotbeat 8y ago
        I find that unlikely. I mean, what if there are no brothers? If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move), there's about a 50:50 chance that a woman won't even have a brother to help raise the children. Seems super unlikely to be the "most common" (by number of societies) arrangement when it only can work like 50% of the time in a society that DOES decide to do it. Was your Anthropology professor pulling your leg?
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        > If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move), Stable population size in any significant society is a very new thing, not historically common. Basing your assessment of historical likelihood on societies being assumed to have a trait that basically no premodern society did probably isn't reasonable.
        mavelikara 8y ago
        I am from a part of the world - Kerala, India - where the matrilineal inheritance [1] was common up until about 50 years ago. This system worked as the GP described. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumakkathayam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumakkathayam
hyperpallium 8y ago
Sounds like Dirty Jobs' don't do what you love, love what you do https://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1i26RbrhM&t=8s https://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1i26RbrhM&t=8s I've heard that arranged marriages end up as loving relationships. If choosen as compatible and with no choice but to make it work... plausible. Or it could be that people put up with damaging situations.
- pm90 8y ago
  Arranged marriages are still marriages and come with the same issues. Couple of factors why they succeed often is: * compatibility is established by design * usually, its a union of families, which creates a wider social circle that helps out the newlywed couple through difficulties Personally, I believe that _any_ two people living together and sharing so much will inevitably end up loving/hating each other. You simply can't be indifferent to people who are in such close social contact with you for so long.
  - graycat 8y ago
    Good that you mentioned the two families. And having 3-4 generations all right there is a big help. Also helping are having kids if only because it creates and orders the TODO list when a baby cries or a child needs food, shoes, etc. Also helping are well established ROLES. Both husband and wife already know in good terms what they are to do. Also helped was the village church and the weekly services emphasizing family formation. Also helped was village social pressure, at times really severe.
    - dbt00 8y ago
      There's also specific pressure creating cultural conformity; if you need to go to your mother in law when your husband is an asshole, you and your mother in law had better agree on what being an asshole is and how he should change. This creates a bias towards cultural stability but also limits unions involving social outsiders or non-traditional marriage partners.
  - btilly 8y ago
watwut 8y ago
I dunno. Violence in marriage is less frequent now then it used to be. Part of that is changing status and opportunities of women, but part of that is when people treat marriage as economic arrangement then what they get is mini startup with hard way to leave. That era also have a lot of jokes about marriages that ends up with both partners despising each other and calling each other names.

k__ 8y ago

What are the other arrangements? Couldn't we simply have tax breaks per children and be done with it?

geezerjay 8y ago
Tax breaks doesn't help share both parenting tasks and paeenting influence.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Nomentatus 8y ago
The most common other arrangement in this society is serial monogamy (the original comment by marchenko means "stable marriage is the best", not "a bunch of marriages in a row are the best".) In other cultures, the most common other arrangement is to give the child's mother's brother (uncle) all the rights and responsibilities that we give to the biological father/husband. The uncle rears the child, with the mother. Marriage can exist in those societies but gives no rights over the child, and no or few responsibilities. (Might be time to consider offering this as an option for people in this society, at least.) Children are little consoled by tax breaks, in my experience. Single mothers can't stay home on a tax break, since there's no income to get that break from.
- WaddyJones 8y ago
  Is being raised by ones uncle really more popular than being raised by ones grandparents, on a global scale? Somehow I doubt it. In many Asian countries being raised by grandparents is the norm but being raised by an uncle would be more of an uncommon arrangement.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    By unique societies studied, over time - not by numbers of individuals. This is what I was told in Anthropology class.
    - Robotbeat 8y ago
      I find that unlikely. I mean, what if there are no brothers? If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move), there's about a 50:50 chance that a woman won't even have a brother to help raise the children. Seems super unlikely to be the "most common" (by number of societies) arrangement when it only can work like 50% of the time in a society that DOES decide to do it. Was your Anthropology professor pulling your leg?
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > If, for sake of argument we say there are always exactly two children per family (approximation for stable population size and if some brothers die or move), Stable population size in any significant society is a very new thing, not historically common. Basing your assessment of historical likelihood on societies being assumed to have a trait that basically no premodern society did probably isn't reasonable.
      - mavelikara 8y ago
        I am from a part of the world - Kerala, India - where the matrilineal inheritance [1] was common up until about 50 years ago. This system worked as the GP described. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumakkathayam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marumakkathayam

hyperpallium 8y ago

Sounds like Dirty Jobs' don't do what you love, love what you do https://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1i26RbrhM&t=8s https://youtube.com/watch?v=NT1i26RbrhM&t=8s I've heard that arranged marriages end up as loving relationships. If choosen as compatible and with no choice but to make it work... plausible. Or it could be that people put up with damaging situations.

pm90 8y ago
Arranged marriages are still marriages and come with the same issues. Couple of factors why they succeed often is: * compatibility is established by design * usually, its a union of families, which creates a wider social circle that helps out the newlywed couple through difficulties Personally, I believe that _any_ two people living together and sharing so much will inevitably end up loving/hating each other. You simply can't be indifferent to people who are in such close social contact with you for so long.
- graycat 8y ago
  Good that you mentioned the two families. And having 3-4 generations all right there is a big help. Also helping are having kids if only because it creates and orders the TODO list when a baby cries or a child needs food, shoes, etc. Also helping are well established ROLES. Both husband and wife already know in good terms what they are to do. Also helped was the village church and the weekly services emphasizing family formation. Also helped was village social pressure, at times really severe.
  - dbt00 8y ago
    There's also specific pressure creating cultural conformity; if you need to go to your mother in law when your husband is an asshole, you and your mother in law had better agree on what being an asshole is and how he should change. This creates a bias towards cultural stability but also limits unions involving social outsiders or non-traditional marriage partners.
- btilly 8y ago

watwut 8y ago

I dunno. Violence in marriage is less frequent now then it used to be. Part of that is changing status and opportunities of women, but part of that is when people treat marriage as economic arrangement then what they get is mini startup with hard way to leave. That era also have a lot of jokes about marriages that ends up with both partners despising each other and calling each other names.