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> Windows is for grandmas, like Macs used to be in the 90s. So not only does the desktop no longer matter, no one who cares about computers uses Microsoft's an

> Windows is for grandmas, like Macs used to be in the 90s. So not only does the desktop no longer matter, no one who cares about computers uses Microsoft's anyway. This sounds like a very ignorant thing to state. Wherever I worked, the best programmers used Windows and Linux desktops. Why? Because they too busy coding to get caught up in the Apple hype is my best guess. You know just like he talks about being ignorant to what was going on in Microsoft world, many coders I worked with did not know or care about what was going on in Apple world. There was one group of people who I did notice flock to Apple OS's, wannabe developers. The type that talk a lot about new tech but never wrote code that got deployed to production.

diminoten 8y ago
MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS. The best developers I know don't really care what OS they're on, but MacOS is what they'll pick if they get a choice.
- jmartrican 8y ago
  > MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS. How so?
  - jmartrican 8y ago
    BTW, please note that on Windows I can use various types of Linux variants right from the Windows App store. So the excuse of having a Nix shell on Mac OS is no longer a point for Mac OS. In fact, because we use Ubuntu in prod, and I run Ubuntu on Windows, that point might now be for Windows for many users.
    - wilsonnb3 8y ago
      I still prefer using a real nix instead of the windows subsystem for Linux. Mostly because the file system integration with WSL is still bad and Windows still doesn’t come with a decent terminal emulator.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    Linux, the kernel, is one of mankind's greatest achievements, I do believe this. The Linux desktop experience, however, is a living nightmare. Your computer itself becomes your second hobby, in addition to whatever you do on your computer. For a professional who's at work to produce novel software, that creates an additional time-sink they don't have the luxury of indulging. This isn't even really a debate for developers, and pretending like it is just baits the idiotic "Great OS Wars" debates that have zero rational actors. "What's the best OS (for x)" has been, for probably 25 years, a flaimbait level question. Besides, I use "all" 3 OSes (MacOS, Linux, Windows) for various things, why does this have to be a, "YOU CAN ONLY PICK ONE!" conversation? I could happily develop on Linux or Windows, I am (along with most in the industry, based on my conversations with people over the years) just happiest on MacOS.
    - jmartrican 8y ago
      "just happiest on MacOS" is far from what you wrote earlier, "MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS". This points to a problem I notice, hyperbole and exaggeration when discussing software development tools and technology.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        Because it is the best generic developer OS (it's *nix + good desktop environment, no Linux distro can even come close to the latter), I am also just happiest with it.
- smt88 8y ago
  MacOS has been a buggy mess for years. From 2008 to 2014, I used to have three screens in front of me: Fedora (local dev server), Windows (Office and business apps), and OS X (iOS dev). I had by far the most problems with OS X. Windows has been the “just works” OS for me since Windows 7. I’ve had zero bugs and zero crashes. I know that’s not universal, but I’ve spent thousands of hours with various Linux distros, MacOS, and Windows, so it’s also not exactly anecdotal. The opinion part of that matters a lot less than the silly elitism of “good developers choose ____” OS. I like to be able to customize every aspect of my OS, so I preferred Linux for a long time and now typically use Windows (because it’s customizable enough and easier to use).
  - diminoten 8y ago
    MacOS is anything but a buggy mess. I use it for 12-16 hours a day, every day, and have encountered literally zero bugs in the past 7 years. If you don't consider your OS a separate hobby unto itself, MacOS wins against Linux desktops, easily.
    - smt88 8y ago
      Your experience may differ, but I'm not alone[1] in my opinion that MacOS quality control has been terrible for years. 1. https://www.cultofmac.com/522627/yet-another-crazy-bug-uncovered-macos-high-sierra/ https://www.cultofmac.com/522627/yet-another-crazy-bug-uncov...
      - diminoten 8y ago
        Not being alone and being correct are entirely unrelated. Also, an OS having bugs and an OS being "terrible" are also entirely unrelated. Should I just link the bug trackers for each of the desktop environments available for Linux? Should I link the Linux kernel bug tracker (not that either such thing is actually fair)? You're flamebaiting more OS wars, and honestly I'm pretty sure that's explicitly disallowed on HN, per the rules.
        _Tev 8y ago
userbinator 8y ago
As a Windows/Linux developer my reason is that both Windows (at least historically) and Linux offer far more opportunities for customisation than macOS, as well as being far less about hiding things and dumbing-down for the computer-illiterates, or locking the user out in the name of security. I agree with your observation about those who prefer Apple products: it seems to be more of a fashion statement.

diminoten 8y ago

MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS. The best developers I know don't really care what OS they're on, but MacOS is what they'll pick if they get a choice.

jmartrican 8y ago
> MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS. How so?
- jmartrican 8y ago
  BTW, please note that on Windows I can use various types of Linux variants right from the Windows App store. So the excuse of having a Nix shell on Mac OS is no longer a point for Mac OS. In fact, because we use Ubuntu in prod, and I run Ubuntu on Windows, that point might now be for Windows for many users.
  - wilsonnb3 8y ago
    I still prefer using a real nix instead of the windows subsystem for Linux. Mostly because the file system integration with WSL is still bad and Windows still doesn’t come with a decent terminal emulator.
- diminoten 8y ago
  Linux, the kernel, is one of mankind's greatest achievements, I do believe this. The Linux desktop experience, however, is a living nightmare. Your computer itself becomes your second hobby, in addition to whatever you do on your computer. For a professional who's at work to produce novel software, that creates an additional time-sink they don't have the luxury of indulging. This isn't even really a debate for developers, and pretending like it is just baits the idiotic "Great OS Wars" debates that have zero rational actors. "What's the best OS (for x)" has been, for probably 25 years, a flaimbait level question. Besides, I use "all" 3 OSes (MacOS, Linux, Windows) for various things, why does this have to be a, "YOU CAN ONLY PICK ONE!" conversation? I could happily develop on Linux or Windows, I am (along with most in the industry, based on my conversations with people over the years) just happiest on MacOS.
  - jmartrican 8y ago
    "just happiest on MacOS" is far from what you wrote earlier, "MacOS is, by far the best generic developer OS". This points to a problem I notice, hyperbole and exaggeration when discussing software development tools and technology.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Because it is the best generic developer OS (it's *nix + good desktop environment, no Linux distro can even come close to the latter), I am also just happiest with it.
smt88 8y ago
MacOS has been a buggy mess for years. From 2008 to 2014, I used to have three screens in front of me: Fedora (local dev server), Windows (Office and business apps), and OS X (iOS dev). I had by far the most problems with OS X. Windows has been the “just works” OS for me since Windows 7. I’ve had zero bugs and zero crashes. I know that’s not universal, but I’ve spent thousands of hours with various Linux distros, MacOS, and Windows, so it’s also not exactly anecdotal. The opinion part of that matters a lot less than the silly elitism of “good developers choose ____” OS. I like to be able to customize every aspect of my OS, so I preferred Linux for a long time and now typically use Windows (because it’s customizable enough and easier to use).
- diminoten 8y ago
  MacOS is anything but a buggy mess. I use it for 12-16 hours a day, every day, and have encountered literally zero bugs in the past 7 years. If you don't consider your OS a separate hobby unto itself, MacOS wins against Linux desktops, easily.
  - smt88 8y ago
    Your experience may differ, but I'm not alone[1] in my opinion that MacOS quality control has been terrible for years. 1. https://www.cultofmac.com/522627/yet-another-crazy-bug-uncovered-macos-high-sierra/ https://www.cultofmac.com/522627/yet-another-crazy-bug-uncov...
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Not being alone and being correct are entirely unrelated. Also, an OS having bugs and an OS being "terrible" are also entirely unrelated. Should I just link the bug trackers for each of the desktop environments available for Linux? Should I link the Linux kernel bug tracker (not that either such thing is actually fair)? You're flamebaiting more OS wars, and honestly I'm pretty sure that's explicitly disallowed on HN, per the rules.
      - _Tev 8y ago

userbinator 8y ago

As a Windows/Linux developer my reason is that both Windows (at least historically) and Linux offer far more opportunities for customisation than macOS, as well as being far less about hiding things and dumbing-down for the computer-illiterates, or locking the user out in the name of security. I agree with your observation about those who prefer Apple products: it seems to be more of a fashion statement.