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I imagine the difference is that hermit crabs are exhibiting a rote, inborn behavior that is universal among the species. Cephalopods apparently figure this stu

I imagine the difference is that hermit crabs are exhibiting a rote, inborn behavior that is universal among the species. Cephalopods apparently figure this stuff out on the fly.

rectangletangle 8y ago
This, the octopus is choosing its shelter based of fluid reasoning, while the arthropods are doing it in a reflexive instinctual manner.
- pishpash 8y ago
  I honestly don't see where the distinction is. What do you call fluid reasoning? As the article says, cephalopods' ancestors used to have shells, like snails. Finding a replacement when it is available seems pretty instinctual to me, if only as a vestigial behavior.
  - rectangletangle 8y ago
    Don't know why you're getting down votes, this is a reasonable question. For instance, if you have a container full of hermit crabs, shells, and other debris, nearly 100% of the crabs will adorn themselves with a shell, because of the instinctual drive to protect their carapace. While if you were to repeat the same exercise, but with octopuses instead of crabs, the octopuses will find shelter in many different and creative ways. Some will find crevasses, while others will wear a shell like their ancestors (though this isn't likely instinct, since ancient cephalopods grew their shells, instead of hunting for them). Some will even live in a shell, and then find a "door" to cover the entrance with. Combine with evidence of mechanical aptitude, from experiments where octupus are given food in locked containers, it's pretty clear they have a deep understanding of the world around them. For example you can give an octopus a meal in a threaded jar, and after some initial experimentation, they will reliably get to the food. The second time, it will immediately unthread the jar without experimentation, suggesting that it learned the "trick." Keep in mind, very few animals physically capable of opening a jar are actually smart enough to figure out how jars work, so this is very impressive. Another interesting example, wild octopuses favorite food is crab, they will seek out fisherman's crab traps in the wild, open the latch mechanism, then gorge themselves on all the trapped crab inside. They are the only animal I know of that will do this.
codeisawesome 8y ago
Not to take away from this point - but I was always curious - Anyone have a summary of how these “rote inbuilt behaviours” work Hardware-wise in living things? Is the research even far along on defining and demarcating behaviours easily based on this?
- lawrenceyan 8y ago
  Instinctual responses are generally understood to be stored within the genetic material, though I imagine like most anything, there’s a sort of continuous distribution between instinctual and learned behaviors rather than an analog black and white distinction.
  - codeisawesome 8y ago
    That’s truly amazing. So does this mean that .behaviour files are a common format, and that, .braingroove and .genememory are “compiled” into this format at “runtime”?
Nasrudith 8y ago
I don't know about rote or learned but they do figure it out on the fly and are willing to go with basically anything to protect their soft abdomen and keep it from drying out rapidly - including litter if it is their only option.
- libraryatnight 8y ago
  That's just choosing a different casing (or using what's readily available), the urge to find a casing is what's innate. You don't see all octopuses finding objects to carry and use as protection - like tools, it's something this one figured out.

I imagine the difference is that hermit crabs are exhibiting a rote, inborn behavior that is universal among the species. Cephalopods apparently figure this stuff out on the fly.

rectangletangle 8y ago

This, the octopus is choosing its shelter based of fluid reasoning, while the arthropods are doing it in a reflexive instinctual manner.

pishpash 8y ago
I honestly don't see where the distinction is. What do you call fluid reasoning? As the article says, cephalopods' ancestors used to have shells, like snails. Finding a replacement when it is available seems pretty instinctual to me, if only as a vestigial behavior.
- rectangletangle 8y ago
  Don't know why you're getting down votes, this is a reasonable question. For instance, if you have a container full of hermit crabs, shells, and other debris, nearly 100% of the crabs will adorn themselves with a shell, because of the instinctual drive to protect their carapace. While if you were to repeat the same exercise, but with octopuses instead of crabs, the octopuses will find shelter in many different and creative ways. Some will find crevasses, while others will wear a shell like their ancestors (though this isn't likely instinct, since ancient cephalopods grew their shells, instead of hunting for them). Some will even live in a shell, and then find a "door" to cover the entrance with. Combine with evidence of mechanical aptitude, from experiments where octupus are given food in locked containers, it's pretty clear they have a deep understanding of the world around them. For example you can give an octopus a meal in a threaded jar, and after some initial experimentation, they will reliably get to the food. The second time, it will immediately unthread the jar without experimentation, suggesting that it learned the "trick." Keep in mind, very few animals physically capable of opening a jar are actually smart enough to figure out how jars work, so this is very impressive. Another interesting example, wild octopuses favorite food is crab, they will seek out fisherman's crab traps in the wild, open the latch mechanism, then gorge themselves on all the trapped crab inside. They are the only animal I know of that will do this.

codeisawesome 8y ago

Not to take away from this point - but I was always curious - Anyone have a summary of how these “rote inbuilt behaviours” work Hardware-wise in living things? Is the research even far along on defining and demarcating behaviours easily based on this?

lawrenceyan 8y ago
Instinctual responses are generally understood to be stored within the genetic material, though I imagine like most anything, there’s a sort of continuous distribution between instinctual and learned behaviors rather than an analog black and white distinction.
- codeisawesome 8y ago
  That’s truly amazing. So does this mean that .behaviour files are a common format, and that, .braingroove and .genememory are “compiled” into this format at “runtime”?

Nasrudith 8y ago

I don't know about rote or learned but they do figure it out on the fly and are willing to go with basically anything to protect their soft abdomen and keep it from drying out rapidly - including litter if it is their only option.

libraryatnight 8y ago
That's just choosing a different casing (or using what's readily available), the urge to find a casing is what's innate. You don't see all octopuses finding objects to carry and use as protection - like tools, it's something this one figured out.