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Why would an addict use heroin over fentanyl if they both produce the same euphoric effects but fentanyl is cheaper / stronger? I almost always hear about fent
by jwally 8y ago
Why would an addict use heroin over fentanyl if they both produce the same euphoric effects but fentanyl is cheaper / stronger?
I almost always hear about fentanyl in the context of "...the heroin was cut with with fentanyl". I read that statement like "...the heroin was cut with ultra-pure-super-heroin". Why wouldn't the addict cut out the "middle-man" and just use fentanyl? Legitimately trying to understand.
- tptacek 8y agoPossibly: it's extremely strong, which means physical dependency kicks in extremely fast and hard. Just because you're addicted to opioids doesn't mean you don't care about modulating your intake.
- refurb 8y agoJust because it’s more potent on a weigh basis doesn’t mean it’s easier to get addicted. That’s a property of the drug that is distinct from the dose.
- guitarbill 8y agoBecause it's hard to dose correctly, and has a very slim error margin?
- pas 8y agoAccording to the current top comment fentanyl has a higher safety range LD50 is 400 times more than the therapeutic dose (whereas this ratio is 50 for heroin), but since it's many times more potent than heroin, it's a lot easier to screw up the dilution.
- dillondoyle 8y agoIt would be very hard for a junky to dose in most environments. Like you could do volumetric dosing but just isn't practical for those in too deep and especially if in the daily struggle just to get well grind. I also think it has shorter 'legs' that is kind of like crack vs coke you have to re-dose the fent more often than heroin
- VectorLock 8y agoHaving a dose that wears off quicker seems like it would be a feature for the dealers.
- LaikaF 8y agoFentanyl doses in micrograms I believe. A lot of addicts are addicted to the feeling of the injection and the ritual of it as well. Heroin I believe doses in the tens of mgs, which is hard to measure precisely but can be weighed on a twenty dollar scale. You could distribute fent in the same way Lsd is on blotter paper. The big difference is you accidently get a hot spot of Lsd it's not fatal. Many addicts aren't buying massive quantities at once either nor are they getting it from the internet.
- refurb 8y agoTypical dose of fentanyl in the medical setting for an adult is 100 ug (0.1 mg). For heroin (diamorphine in the UK), it’s 5 mg. A 50x difference.
- robbiep 8y agoA typical dose is 25 mcg, I certainly wouldn’t give an opioid naive person 100mcg in a go. Dose low and go again if relief not adequate
- joecool1029 8y agoFrom the addict's perspective, it's because it's better to use something that's cheap and only might kill you, versus something that is only slightly cheaper and probably will kill you due to difficulty in dosing. The only reason fent exists on the black market is it's stupidly easy to smuggle compared to heroin, a tiny thimbleful of it could be cut into something like a thousand doses. This works out for dealer economics, it's not to benefit the addict.
- GordonS 8y agoI believe fentanyl is also relatively easy to synthesise.
- trhway 8y ago>This works out for dealer economics, it's not to benefit the addict. there were some articles/research that the harsher the Prohibition enforcement the more trafficking shifts into the higher potent stuff.
- wutbrodo 8y agoYea it's called "The Iron Law of Prohibition", which mostly has to do with the fact that more potent drugs take up less space per eventual dollar paid by the end user, and shipping lower volume means dealing with less risk (and thus cost) during transport (risk, of course, being one of the main things that make drugs expensive).
- code_duck 8y agoIllegality also encroaches users to use drugs in a way that maximizes their effect, such as injection, insufflation or smoking. Cocaine is, for instance, active orally, but few people take it that way these days.
- code_duck 8y agoI meant ‘encourages’.
- coleifer 8y agoFentanyl is a shitty high, doesn't last long compared to heroin, and a tiny bit separated a high and death.
- stordoff 8y agoAnecdotally, many users report that it is less euphoric than heroin: > The subjective effects of fentanyl are similar to those of heroin, with the exception that many users report a noticeably less euphoric "high" https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Fentanyl https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Fentanyl (also of note is that heroin fentanyl has a shorter duration of action) >Ocfentanil shows typical opiate-like effects like euphoria and relaxation. Users reported that it is less “cool” and euphoric than heroin, but it is more stimulant and has a very quick onset, after 3 min. The users also reported that it has shorter duration of action (3 h) than heroin https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5754389/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5754389/ Whether or not that it is true, it may contribute to users not using it (obvious safety issues aside).
- betterunix2 8y agoA lot of heroin users developed an opiate dependency using prescription painkillers, but once their doctor stopped giving them the prescription they looked for something else. Once upon a time heroin was the cheaper drug because fentanyl was only available by prescription; people with opiate dependencies wanted fentanyl not because it was stronger but because it was manufactured by pharmaceutical companies, which means specified and reliable doses and a very pure product. Today the problem is that fentanyl is produced by underground labs using questionable processes, so it is basically no different than "heroin" as far as the danger goes. The reason I put "heroin" in quotes is that in reality people cannot know what they are buying on the black market; maybe it is heroin, maybe it is fentanyl, maybe it is a mixture, or maybe they are about to become a case study like this group: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/medical-mystery-how-tainted-drugs-froze-young-people-but-kickstarted-parkinsons-research/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/05/medical-mystery-how-...
- andyv 8y agoHeroin with a small amount of fentanyl gives an extra kick to the heroin. Heroin dealers who don't include fentanyl are regarded to have an inferior product. If the heroin is cut with too much fentanyl, your customers die. As mentioned in other replies, the problem with doing fentanyl directly is that it only takes a minute amount to kill, amounts that are difficult to measure.
- DanBC 8y agoThe dealers buy a kilo of heroin, or fentanyl, and dilute it. They can dilute the fentanyl much more, which means they can sell very many more doses. This means they have huge profits from fentanyl.
- TheGrumpyBrit 8y agoHeroin is the kind of strength where a practised addict can probably eyeball it and get more or less the effect they're looking for. Fentanyl is the kind of strength where a difference in dose the size of a grain of salt could be the difference between life and death.