4 ms·

I don't have a reason to believe our candidates are lying when they say they want to continue doing engineering work or move into management. None of that impli

I don't have a reason to believe our candidates are lying when they say they want to continue doing engineering work or move into management. None of that implies they're set on working with us, and that's OK, they're interviewing and know very little about us, so its understandable that they don't know whether it'll work out with us. So by saying they want to continue working as an engineer, we know that as long as they're working with us, we'll have an engineer. With product/project/people managers, we know to maybe keep an open head for a potential internal lateral movement from engineering. When they say "at Google", that's at least as bad as saying "working for you"; they know nothing about what working at Google is like any more than they know what working with us will be like. Plus, it implies "I don't want to work for you"; would you hire anyone that says that?

TeMPOraL 8y ago
Fair enough, wrt. working as an engineer, and not putting too much stock in "working with us" part. Early sign that a person wants to stay on the engineer track, or transition towards management, is useful. > When they say "at Google", that's at least as bad as saying "working for you"; they know nothing about what working at Google is like any more than they know what working with us will be like. They do know enough. They know that Google is "hot". Pays well, gives a lot of street cred, opens a lot of doors. Unless you're one of FAANG, they can assume with high confidence that working for Google will be better than working for you. What they may not be confident about is whether they'd pass an interview there. > Plus, it implies "I don't want to work for you"; would you hire anyone that says that? IMO the very fact they showed up implies they do want to work for you now. But maybe not in 5 years. For a typical programming job, I don't see a problem. It's unlikely the person will stay with you for 5 years anyway, so why not treat this simply as exchanging professional services for money?
- kenhwang 8y ago
  > They do know enough. They know that Google is "hot". Pays well, gives a lot of street cred, opens a lot of doors. Unless you're one of FAANG, they can assume with high confidence that working for Google will be better than working for you. What they may not be confident about is whether they'd pass an interview there. All valid things to want, but very little of it benefits us. Being a better engineer or manager benefits the company and would convince me to hire. Saying you want to work elsewhere eventually, but not being able to say why doesn't tell me why I should hire. > IMO the very fact they showed up implies they do want to work for you now. But maybe not in 5 years. For a typical programming job, I don't see a problem. It's unlikely the person will stay with you for 5 years anyway, so why not treat this simply as exchanging professional services for money? Sure, but they've just raised the bar a lot higher for themselves since now they have to convince us that they can hit the ground running and require minimal onboarding and investment. Very very few candidates can do that, and those that can have no problem getting a job at FAANG. Usually the ones that meet that higher bar are extended an offer, but so far all have declined in favor of a FAANG.
  - watwut 8y ago
    To me stories like this drive home the fact that there is no shortage of programmers. When there is shortage of programmers, no one cares about games like this and hire, because they want non-sociopath to work for them for next year and are drowning in work that needs to be done. I think that this means there is a lot of good programmers with reasonable personalities around and companies are picky.
    - kenhwang 8y ago
      Depends on the market. I'm in Los Angeles where there's a ton of people willing to work here, but not very many companies hiring. Bay Area I know is the exact opposite.
paulcole 8y ago
> I don't have a reason to believe our candidates are lying when they say they want to continue doing engineering work or move into management Because those are the answers you clearly want to hear.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Fair enough, wrt. working as an engineer, and not putting too much stock in "working with us" part. Early sign that a person wants to stay on the engineer track, or transition towards management, is useful. > When they say "at Google", that's at least as bad as saying "working for you"; they know nothing about what working at Google is like any more than they know what working with us will be like. They do know enough. They know that Google is "hot". Pays well, gives a lot of street cred, opens a lot of doors. Unless you're one of FAANG, they can assume with high confidence that working for Google will be better than working for you. What they may not be confident about is whether they'd pass an interview there. > Plus, it implies "I don't want to work for you"; would you hire anyone that says that? IMO the very fact they showed up implies they do want to work for you now. But maybe not in 5 years. For a typical programming job, I don't see a problem. It's unlikely the person will stay with you for 5 years anyway, so why not treat this simply as exchanging professional services for money?

kenhwang 8y ago
> They do know enough. They know that Google is "hot". Pays well, gives a lot of street cred, opens a lot of doors. Unless you're one of FAANG, they can assume with high confidence that working for Google will be better than working for you. What they may not be confident about is whether they'd pass an interview there. All valid things to want, but very little of it benefits us. Being a better engineer or manager benefits the company and would convince me to hire. Saying you want to work elsewhere eventually, but not being able to say why doesn't tell me why I should hire. > IMO the very fact they showed up implies they do want to work for you now. But maybe not in 5 years. For a typical programming job, I don't see a problem. It's unlikely the person will stay with you for 5 years anyway, so why not treat this simply as exchanging professional services for money? Sure, but they've just raised the bar a lot higher for themselves since now they have to convince us that they can hit the ground running and require minimal onboarding and investment. Very very few candidates can do that, and those that can have no problem getting a job at FAANG. Usually the ones that meet that higher bar are extended an offer, but so far all have declined in favor of a FAANG.
- watwut 8y ago
  To me stories like this drive home the fact that there is no shortage of programmers. When there is shortage of programmers, no one cares about games like this and hire, because they want non-sociopath to work for them for next year and are drowning in work that needs to be done. I think that this means there is a lot of good programmers with reasonable personalities around and companies are picky.
  - kenhwang 8y ago
    Depends on the market. I'm in Los Angeles where there's a ton of people willing to work here, but not very many companies hiring. Bay Area I know is the exact opposite.

paulcole 8y ago

> I don't have a reason to believe our candidates are lying when they say they want to continue doing engineering work or move into management Because those are the answers you clearly want to hear.