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I've been a fan of the Swiss system for quite a while. The citizens don't merely get to make public comment on what the government does; they can create a refe

I've been a fan of the Swiss system for quite a while. The citizens don't merely get to make public comment on what the government does; they can create a referendum and overrule it. They use proportional representation too, as do many democracies. And the cantons are cool. A part of a canton can leave the canton, join another or make a new one. It rarely happens, but the fact that it can probably helps keep the canton government on its toes. And canton boundaries are probably more organic than many of the US states.

shafyy 8y ago
I don't know the actual laws, but I would argue that a canton leaving and joining another canton is as easy/hard as it's in the US. Source: I'm Swiss.
- Kalium 8y ago
  Making a state from part of another state requires the consent of both state legislatures and Congress (Article IV, Section 3). Pretty much any border change of a state requires at the approval of both Congress and all affected state legislatures. Note that this leaves executive branches out entirely. Not sure how it works in Switzerland, though a quick look at Wikipedia suggests plebiscites can be involved. National plebiscites don't really exist in the US.
  - stretchwithme 8y ago
    If my reading of 1999 constitution is correct, the canton(s) involved must approve and a majority of Swiss voters and a majority of the cantons. It does not have to be approved by the Federal Assembly. "Any change in the number of Cantons requires the consent of the citizens and the Cantons concerned together with the consent of the People and the Cantons." https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/index.html https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/... Not sure that is any easier than getting Congress to approve such a change. But such changes have happened in Switzerland and the only one that's happened in the US was due to most of Virginia seceding at the start of the Civil War. Of course, Switzerland is much older.
    - microtherion 8y ago
      But such changes have happened in Switzerland Exactly ONE new canton got created by a referendum process. It took 30 years to get to a referendum, accompanied by everything from acts of terror to threats of foreign intervention. And today, 40 years later, we're still trying to sort out the exact boundaries. Surely, it was pretty successful by international separatist standards, but it still was a hard slog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_separatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_separatism
      - stretchwithme 8y ago
        Not easy at all, but still beats most civil wars. Thanks for pointing this out. Is this where Jurassic Park happened :-)
      - shafyy 8y ago
        Yeah exactly that's my point. The parent made it sound like it happens every other year.
- deleted 8y ago
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wbl 8y ago
How did that work out for California?
_nalply 8y ago
There was a plebiscite for a small city in the Jura mountains whether they want to stay in the Canton of Bern or change to the Canton of Jura. The city was in favor of changing. However some irregularities were discovered and the outcome declared invalid by judge. The city has been ordered to redo the plebiscite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moutier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moutier (please read the ninth paragraph or the last one before the section Geography)

shafyy 8y ago

I don't know the actual laws, but I would argue that a canton leaving and joining another canton is as easy/hard as it's in the US. Source: I'm Swiss.

Kalium 8y ago
Making a state from part of another state requires the consent of both state legislatures and Congress (Article IV, Section 3). Pretty much any border change of a state requires at the approval of both Congress and all affected state legislatures. Note that this leaves executive branches out entirely. Not sure how it works in Switzerland, though a quick look at Wikipedia suggests plebiscites can be involved. National plebiscites don't really exist in the US.
- stretchwithme 8y ago
  If my reading of 1999 constitution is correct, the canton(s) involved must approve and a majority of Swiss voters and a majority of the cantons. It does not have to be approved by the Federal Assembly. "Any change in the number of Cantons requires the consent of the citizens and the Cantons concerned together with the consent of the People and the Cantons." https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/index.html https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19995395/... Not sure that is any easier than getting Congress to approve such a change. But such changes have happened in Switzerland and the only one that's happened in the US was due to most of Virginia seceding at the start of the Civil War. Of course, Switzerland is much older.
  - microtherion 8y ago
    But such changes have happened in Switzerland Exactly ONE new canton got created by a referendum process. It took 30 years to get to a referendum, accompanied by everything from acts of terror to threats of foreign intervention. And today, 40 years later, we're still trying to sort out the exact boundaries. Surely, it was pretty successful by international separatist standards, but it still was a hard slog. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_separatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurassic_separatism
    - stretchwithme 8y ago
      Not easy at all, but still beats most civil wars. Thanks for pointing this out. Is this where Jurassic Park happened :-)
    - shafyy 8y ago
      Yeah exactly that's my point. The parent made it sound like it happens every other year.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

wbl 8y ago

How did that work out for California?

_nalply 8y ago

There was a plebiscite for a small city in the Jura mountains whether they want to stay in the Canton of Bern or change to the Canton of Jura. The city was in favor of changing. However some irregularities were discovered and the outcome declared invalid by judge. The city has been ordered to redo the plebiscite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moutier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moutier (please read the ninth paragraph or the last one before the section Geography)