5 ms·

> Public opinion about MBS was quite favorable a few short months ago, and it is this story alone that threatens it. No, also his prosecution of the war in Ye

by dash2 8y ago

> Public opinion about MBS was quite favorable a few short months ago, and it is this story alone that threatens it. No, also his prosecution of the war in Yemen. > By skipping that step and jumping right to PR to help fuel moral indignation in Americans, the CIA is way way way out of bounds. The US at its best stands up for a free press, and against, for example, authoritarian states being free to murder their critics worldwide. > Quite likely most senior CIA officials have far more blood on their hands than MBS. In the light of Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen, this statement is clearly false.

resters 8y ago
This is absurd. Who is selling SA the weapons it will use in Yemen.
- reitanqild 8y ago
  > This is absurd. Who is selling SA the weapons it will use in Yemen. Everyone who gets a chance? (-a few European countries who stopped recently.)
- dash2 8y ago
  The fact that other governments are involved does not make SA's actions less bad.
- moosey 8y ago
  This is whataboutism. Both are horrid: Corporations in the United States that build and sell weapons with the permission of the US government, other western governments and corporations that do the same as well. Yeah, horrid. It doesn't excuse the fact that SA and MBS are also horrible.
  - resters 8y ago
    Not at all. To qualify I would need to be defending MBS. On balance the US causes substantially more human suffering in the world than all other terror groups and despots combined. It’s strange that character attacks on MBS work so well to make Americans assume that the US must be the good guy. In the US there is a tremendous appeal to the narrative that the US is the (relative) good guy. American exceptionalism is a religion and it easily leverages the widespread white suoremecist views of Americans who already mistrust the brown folks. So beware of reinforcing the American exceptionalism dogma when you cite “whataboutism”. It is often budled into that critique.
    - fit2rule 8y ago
      > American exceptionalism is a religion America is run by a Death Cult, which worships the ability to wage unfettered war and destruction above all else. We will never be free of it for as long as we allow them to keep their secrets - which is why journalists are murdered when they get too close to the fire.
      - dang 8y ago
        This sort of flamewar comment will get you banned from Hacker News regardless of how many bad things the CIA did. You've been posting like this repeatedly; please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cmurf 8y ago
  The CIA does not manufacture or sell weapons, and it doesn't set weapons sales policies. War profiteering American military industrial complex companies manufacture, sell, and lobby to make this possible. The allowance for the arms sales is made possible by the legislative and executive branches, so you can blame primarily POTUS and the Senate for not just the arms sales, the very definition of blood money, but also funding the military logistics the American military has been providing to Saudi Arabia for the deaths of Yemeni civilians. But the people pulling the trigger are the Saudis.
rst 8y ago
The war in Yemen has been going on for years, and started during the Obama administration. I'm glad it's finally getting the bad press it deserves, but that's as likely a consequence of the press beating up on the Saudi government as a cause of it.
boomboomsubban 8y ago
>In the light of Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen, this statement is clearly false. First, the CIA actions in Iraq make this almost certainly true. Yemen is a minor conflict in comparison. Even still, Saudi actions could not happen without the US. The blockade could not take place without US assistance, the bombs being dropped are from US manufacturing, and the raids dropping the bombs could not happen without US intelligence and air support.
fit2rule 8y ago
>The US at its best stands up for a free press, and against, for example, authoritarian states being free to murder their critics worldwide. The US murders journalists.
- DonHopkins 8y ago
  Not when it can contract that out to the Saudi government then help them cover it up. But yes, your point is well taken. It was just more convenient to have MBS murder that particular Washington Post reporter, this time. But the other "enemies of the people" are on notice that they'd better watch their mouths and asses.
  - dash2 8y ago
    There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the US contracted out this murder to SA, or even approved it before the fact. Your post is warrantless speculation masquerading as obvious truth. This helps damage trust in your already fragile democracy. Please don't do that.

by dash2 8y ago

resters 8y ago

This is absurd. Who is selling SA the weapons it will use in Yemen.

reitanqild 8y ago
> This is absurd. Who is selling SA the weapons it will use in Yemen. Everyone who gets a chance? (-a few European countries who stopped recently.)
dash2 8y ago
The fact that other governments are involved does not make SA's actions less bad.
moosey 8y ago
This is whataboutism. Both are horrid: Corporations in the United States that build and sell weapons with the permission of the US government, other western governments and corporations that do the same as well. Yeah, horrid. It doesn't excuse the fact that SA and MBS are also horrible.
- resters 8y ago
  Not at all. To qualify I would need to be defending MBS. On balance the US causes substantially more human suffering in the world than all other terror groups and despots combined. It’s strange that character attacks on MBS work so well to make Americans assume that the US must be the good guy. In the US there is a tremendous appeal to the narrative that the US is the (relative) good guy. American exceptionalism is a religion and it easily leverages the widespread white suoremecist views of Americans who already mistrust the brown folks. So beware of reinforcing the American exceptionalism dogma when you cite “whataboutism”. It is often budled into that critique.
  - fit2rule 8y ago
    > American exceptionalism is a religion America is run by a Death Cult, which worships the ability to wage unfettered war and destruction above all else. We will never be free of it for as long as we allow them to keep their secrets - which is why journalists are murdered when they get too close to the fire.
    - dang 8y ago
      This sort of flamewar comment will get you banned from Hacker News regardless of how many bad things the CIA did. You've been posting like this repeatedly; please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cmurf 8y ago
The CIA does not manufacture or sell weapons, and it doesn't set weapons sales policies. War profiteering American military industrial complex companies manufacture, sell, and lobby to make this possible. The allowance for the arms sales is made possible by the legislative and executive branches, so you can blame primarily POTUS and the Senate for not just the arms sales, the very definition of blood money, but also funding the military logistics the American military has been providing to Saudi Arabia for the deaths of Yemeni civilians. But the people pulling the trigger are the Saudis.

rst 8y ago

The war in Yemen has been going on for years, and started during the Obama administration. I'm glad it's finally getting the bad press it deserves, but that's as likely a consequence of the press beating up on the Saudi government as a cause of it.

boomboomsubban 8y ago

>In the light of Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen, this statement is clearly false. First, the CIA actions in Iraq make this almost certainly true. Yemen is a minor conflict in comparison. Even still, Saudi actions could not happen without the US. The blockade could not take place without US assistance, the bombs being dropped are from US manufacturing, and the raids dropping the bombs could not happen without US intelligence and air support.

fit2rule 8y ago

>The US at its best stands up for a free press, and against, for example, authoritarian states being free to murder their critics worldwide. The US murders journalists.

DonHopkins 8y ago
Not when it can contract that out to the Saudi government then help them cover it up. But yes, your point is well taken. It was just more convenient to have MBS murder that particular Washington Post reporter, this time. But the other "enemies of the people" are on notice that they'd better watch their mouths and asses.
- dash2 8y ago
  There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the US contracted out this murder to SA, or even approved it before the fact. Your post is warrantless speculation masquerading as obvious truth. This helps damage trust in your already fragile democracy. Please don't do that.