4 ms·

I don't buy it. What is Mr. Blair doing is an equivalent of screaming "FIRE" in a theater, and then "exposing" those stupid enough to run even if there is no fi

by js8 8y ago

I don't buy it. What is Mr. Blair doing is an equivalent of screaming "FIRE" in a theater, and then "exposing" those stupid enough to run even if there is no fire. It reminds me of two Czech cinematographers who made a "documentary" - Cesky sen - where the premise was that they made fake advertising for a new fake supermarket chain with things like large TVs for 5$ and so on, and then they "exposed the consumerism" of people "stupid enough to believe it" to come in droves for the mock opening. I find this type of moralizing elitist and wrong. Garbage in, garbage out is true for humans too. If you deliberately feed people misinformation, then you have no right to complain (or feel morally superior) about bad decisions they make.

walrus01 8y ago
He writes stuff that is so over the top that it's obvious satire. Like The Onion article about Congress demanding a retracting stadium style roof. If you fall for an Onion article, you have noone to blame but your own gullibility and ignorance. https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-c-unless-new-capitol-is-1819566457 https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-... From their About Us page: "DISCLAIMER: America’s Last Line of Defense is a satirical publication that uses the imagination of liberals to expose the extreme bigotry and hate and subsequent blind gullibility that festers in right-wing nutjobs. We present fiction as fact and our sources don’t actually exist. Names that represent actual people and places are purely coincidental and all images should be considered altered and do not in any way depict reality. In other words, if you believe this crap you’re a real dumbass."
- js8 8y ago
  I will repeat myself, but IMHO intent matters. Satire is fine if the goal is to expose a problem in a playful way or to take a certain argument to an extreme to expose hypocrisy. Where it doesn't work is to show how people are stupid, while feeding them wrong (but plausible from their POV) information. Yes, people are sometimes stupid, but if you want to showcase that, I think there is plenty of material to work with, you don't have to make things up. It's like when police makes up a crime by entraping somebody, who wouldn't do the crime otherwise. It is not helping society in any positive way.
  - walrus01 8y ago
    https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-c-1819576375 https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-...
    - js8 8y ago
      Exactly, this is a good example of what I am saying in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18576417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18576417 The Onion was wrong to publish that article. Now the poor people who are not able to recognize satire will be left with an impression that America's crumbling infrastructure is a bigger threat to American way of life than Al-Qaeda. This threatens the funding for important counter-terrorism activities of the FBI and Department of Homeland Security.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  > He writes stuff that is so over the top that it's obvious satire. Like The Onion article about Congress demanding a retracting stadium style roof. Wait. Are you trying to imply that Christopher Blair wrote that article for The Onion? I don't think that's right, is it? If that wasn't your intention, why not link to an article actually by Christopher Blair and we can judge his writing on it's own merits, or lack thereof.
- sigi45 8y ago
  Lucky enough, thats not how our society works. You can be held responsible for doing something which harms others even if you do it 'so over the top'. Even the onion has the responsibility. If they would create articles and people started to believe them, they would have to tell them that it is 'just' satire. I don't even get it that this 'fuckedup' behaviour is justified by a mental model of yours which decides in your opinion what is 'over the top' and what not. I love satire, dark humor etc. but i'm only expressing those things in an environment, which understands it AND which is not hurt by it. And even when i'm very irritated that someone just not get it, IT still doesn't give me the right to laugh about them. Whom i to judge? As long as it doesn't affect me?
- js8 8y ago
  A little OT, but regarding this: https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-c-unless-new-capitol-is-1819566457 https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-... I think Americans should do the same thing as Germans did. They burned the old building so they had a reason to modernize it. It looks real snappy now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_dome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_dome
gonzo41 8y ago
Garbage in, garbage out. Your totally excusing the lack of critical thinking on the person who's been fed garbage.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  Humans, on the whole, aren't renown for their critical thinking. We have had, what, maybe a few critical thinkers in the past couple thousand years. On a good day, maybe. If anything, what typifies the human experience is that we are gullible, easily bored, lazy, impatient, selfish, greedy, stubborn, emotional, blunt, bossy, aggressive, critical, passive, fearful, close-minded, and disorganised. Would it be fair to gaslight then blame the victim?
  - xaqfox 8y ago
    Would it be fair to remove someone's freedom of speech simply because you do not believe them and it is almost always impossible to prove such intent? Show your gaslighting damages to a court (i.e. fraud) and keep your easily abused, authoritarian censorship to yourself.
paulpauper 8y ago
People derive entertainment value from it. same reason why tabloids sell.

by js8 8y ago

walrus01 8y ago

He writes stuff that is so over the top that it's obvious satire. Like The Onion article about Congress demanding a retracting stadium style roof. If you fall for an Onion article, you have noone to blame but your own gullibility and ignorance. https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-c-unless-new-capitol-is-1819566457 https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-... From their About Us page: "DISCLAIMER: America’s Last Line of Defense is a satirical publication that uses the imagination of liberals to expose the extreme bigotry and hate and subsequent blind gullibility that festers in right-wing nutjobs. We present fiction as fact and our sources don’t actually exist. Names that represent actual people and places are purely coincidental and all images should be considered altered and do not in any way depict reality. In other words, if you believe this crap you’re a real dumbass."

js8 8y ago
I will repeat myself, but IMHO intent matters. Satire is fine if the goal is to expose a problem in a playful way or to take a certain argument to an extreme to expose hypocrisy. Where it doesn't work is to show how people are stupid, while feeding them wrong (but plausible from their POV) information. Yes, people are sometimes stupid, but if you want to showcase that, I think there is plenty of material to work with, you don't have to make things up. It's like when police makes up a crime by entraping somebody, who wouldn't do the crime otherwise. It is not helping society in any positive way.
- walrus01 8y ago
  https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-c-1819576375 https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-...
  - js8 8y ago
    Exactly, this is a good example of what I am saying in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18576417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18576417 The Onion was wrong to publish that article. Now the poor people who are not able to recognize satire will be left with an impression that America's crumbling infrastructure is a bigger threat to American way of life than Al-Qaeda. This threatens the funding for important counter-terrorism activities of the FBI and Department of Homeland Security.
TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
> He writes stuff that is so over the top that it's obvious satire. Like The Onion article about Congress demanding a retracting stadium style roof. Wait. Are you trying to imply that Christopher Blair wrote that article for The Onion? I don't think that's right, is it? If that wasn't your intention, why not link to an article actually by Christopher Blair and we can judge his writing on it's own merits, or lack thereof.
sigi45 8y ago
Lucky enough, thats not how our society works. You can be held responsible for doing something which harms others even if you do it 'so over the top'. Even the onion has the responsibility. If they would create articles and people started to believe them, they would have to tell them that it is 'just' satire. I don't even get it that this 'fuckedup' behaviour is justified by a mental model of yours which decides in your opinion what is 'over the top' and what not. I love satire, dark humor etc. but i'm only expressing those things in an environment, which understands it AND which is not hurt by it. And even when i'm very irritated that someone just not get it, IT still doesn't give me the right to laugh about them. Whom i to judge? As long as it doesn't affect me?
js8 8y ago
A little OT, but regarding this: https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-c-unless-new-capitol-is-1819566457 https://politics.theonion.com/congress-threatens-to-leave-d-... I think Americans should do the same thing as Germans did. They burned the old building so they had a reason to modernize it. It looks real snappy now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_dome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_dome

gonzo41 8y ago

Garbage in, garbage out. Your totally excusing the lack of critical thinking on the person who's been fed garbage.

TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
Humans, on the whole, aren't renown for their critical thinking. We have had, what, maybe a few critical thinkers in the past couple thousand years. On a good day, maybe. If anything, what typifies the human experience is that we are gullible, easily bored, lazy, impatient, selfish, greedy, stubborn, emotional, blunt, bossy, aggressive, critical, passive, fearful, close-minded, and disorganised. Would it be fair to gaslight then blame the victim?
- xaqfox 8y ago
  Would it be fair to remove someone's freedom of speech simply because you do not believe them and it is almost always impossible to prove such intent? Show your gaslighting damages to a court (i.e. fraud) and keep your easily abused, authoritarian censorship to yourself.

paulpauper 8y ago

People derive entertainment value from it. same reason why tabloids sell.