5 ms·

Why do you think that?

onetimemanytime 8y ago
A head of state such as SA, known to buy latest tech and hacking tools, to use un-encrypted messages? I'm wondering if CIA has a way in encrypted chats and only uses that info in rare instances--and even then without confirming anything. But MBS knows what he used...
- ianai 8y ago
  Or they used any of a number of more traditional methods to surveil him. Hidden cameras, spies, etc
- baybal2 8y ago
  There was a bank in Russia that hired a dude better known under a moniker "Pchela" to enforce use of pgp, and infosec in general. He devised a plan under which staff is trained, tested, and punished for incompliance. Once the whole of banks ~1200 people staff got certified, they set a deadline for enforcement after which anybody caught will be fired on spot. The day after the deadline they spotted ~60 people in the bank sending plaintext, or replying to an unsigned email. And among them, one director level employee. They had to fire them all, including a directress who went on trying to suing them for years.
  - baybal2 8y ago
    I wanted to say here that powerful and smart people are not immune at all to doing stupid things if they have no discipline.
  - misnome 8y ago
    This sounds interesting, but I can't seem to find the story. Any other information to help track it down?
    - baybal2 8y ago
      That's an account I got first hand. The bank in question is Asia Pacific Bank. A small regional bank in Russian far east.
- vehementi 8y ago
  Or, they murder people with such frequency and lack of consequence that, why bother encrypting? Why would anyone pay attention this time?
  - kenny87 8y ago
    yeah sad, but true.
- leroy_masochist 8y ago
  These guys are not exactly masters of tradecraft; look at the wet work team's ham-handed attempt to impersonate Khashoggi leaving the embassy. Or for that matter, pretty much any aspect of that whole operation. Smooth operators they are not. Also, the KSA is basically a one-man dictatorship at this point. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the Saudi COMSEC guy is not giving MBS a stern talking-to every time he does impulsive 31-year-old dictator stuff like, for example, using unsecure messaging services to communicate with his goons while they're murdering a dissident overseas.
  - jocoda 8y ago
    ... or it could be simple arrogance. The certainty that there would be no comebacks or consequences ...
    - onetimemanytime 8y ago
      after reading https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qahtani-saudi-arabia-hacking-team https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qa... I think they are screwed, too much money and no in house INFOSEC. Whoever they hire, is likely to be in touch with foreign secret services before they do the job. The fact that they have a common fixer posting on forums to buy zero days is very amateurish and shows their sorry state. USA, Russia, China, UK etc all have homegrown expert with security clearances doing that stuff. Maybe MBS is too dumb to use open source apps like Signal, who knows?
  - kenny87 8y ago
    yeah, we often overestimate the general OPSEC awareness and measures these guys take. I mean doing this in a foreign embassy, in Turkey of all places, in the foyer? When I worked overseas our security people told us to assume everything is bugged ... they swept the SCIF everyday, and before any meeting where sensitive information is discussed. Basically, anything not in the SCIF is capable of being monitored/hacked by intelligence services.
- deleted 8y ago
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- deleted 8y ago
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- ryanlol 8y ago
  >known to buy latest tech and hacking tools, to use un-encrypted messages? Google “nokia2mon”, the saudis are definitely not masters of tradecraft. He was very active on a US based hacking forum for years, and everyone knew he worked for KSA.
  - arcticfox 8y ago
    If anyone's curious, it took me a minute to find: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qahtani-saudi-arabia-hacking-team https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qa...
- mbesto 8y ago
  Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state for arguably the most technically advanced country in the world used a private server to send classified information. Assumptions like these are dangerous. Note - do not turn this into a "but her emails" discussion.
  - AJ007 8y ago
    A non technical person who has access to droves of intelligence gleaned from spying may be unaware that they have nothing but a very superficial comprehension as to what is actually going on. I would venture to say that a great number of leaders in the west, east, developed and developing countries could not describe how a computer works. Don’t bother asking them about encryption.

A head of state such as SA, known to buy latest tech and hacking tools, to use un-encrypted messages? I'm wondering if CIA has a way in encrypted chats and only uses that info in rare instances--and even then without confirming anything. But MBS knows what he used...

ianai 8y ago
Or they used any of a number of more traditional methods to surveil him. Hidden cameras, spies, etc
baybal2 8y ago
There was a bank in Russia that hired a dude better known under a moniker "Pchela" to enforce use of pgp, and infosec in general. He devised a plan under which staff is trained, tested, and punished for incompliance. Once the whole of banks ~1200 people staff got certified, they set a deadline for enforcement after which anybody caught will be fired on spot. The day after the deadline they spotted ~60 people in the bank sending plaintext, or replying to an unsigned email. And among them, one director level employee. They had to fire them all, including a directress who went on trying to suing them for years.
- baybal2 8y ago
  I wanted to say here that powerful and smart people are not immune at all to doing stupid things if they have no discipline.
- misnome 8y ago
  This sounds interesting, but I can't seem to find the story. Any other information to help track it down?
  - baybal2 8y ago
    That's an account I got first hand. The bank in question is Asia Pacific Bank. A small regional bank in Russian far east.
vehementi 8y ago
Or, they murder people with such frequency and lack of consequence that, why bother encrypting? Why would anyone pay attention this time?
- kenny87 8y ago
  yeah sad, but true.
leroy_masochist 8y ago
These guys are not exactly masters of tradecraft; look at the wet work team's ham-handed attempt to impersonate Khashoggi leaving the embassy. Or for that matter, pretty much any aspect of that whole operation. Smooth operators they are not. Also, the KSA is basically a one-man dictatorship at this point. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the Saudi COMSEC guy is not giving MBS a stern talking-to every time he does impulsive 31-year-old dictator stuff like, for example, using unsecure messaging services to communicate with his goons while they're murdering a dissident overseas.
- jocoda 8y ago
  ... or it could be simple arrogance. The certainty that there would be no comebacks or consequences ...
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    after reading https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qahtani-saudi-arabia-hacking-team https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qa... I think they are screwed, too much money and no in house INFOSEC. Whoever they hire, is likely to be in touch with foreign secret services before they do the job. The fact that they have a common fixer posting on forums to buy zero days is very amateurish and shows their sorry state. USA, Russia, China, UK etc all have homegrown expert with security clearances doing that stuff. Maybe MBS is too dumb to use open source apps like Signal, who knows?
- kenny87 8y ago
  yeah, we often overestimate the general OPSEC awareness and measures these guys take. I mean doing this in a foreign embassy, in Turkey of all places, in the foyer? When I worked overseas our security people told us to assume everything is bugged ... they swept the SCIF everyday, and before any meeting where sensitive information is discussed. Basically, anything not in the SCIF is capable of being monitored/hacked by intelligence services.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ryanlol 8y ago
>known to buy latest tech and hacking tools, to use un-encrypted messages? Google “nokia2mon”, the saudis are definitely not masters of tradecraft. He was very active on a US based hacking forum for years, and everyone knew he worked for KSA.
- arcticfox 8y ago
  If anyone's curious, it took me a minute to find: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qahtani-saudi-arabia-hacking-team https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/kzjmze/saud-al-qa...
mbesto 8y ago
Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state for arguably the most technically advanced country in the world used a private server to send classified information. Assumptions like these are dangerous. Note - do not turn this into a "but her emails" discussion.
- AJ007 8y ago
  A non technical person who has access to droves of intelligence gleaned from spying may be unaware that they have nothing but a very superficial comprehension as to what is actually going on. I would venture to say that a great number of leaders in the west, east, developed and developing countries could not describe how a computer works. Don’t bother asking them about encryption.