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What if the iPhones make them happy, and your Nokia 520 would not? What if they're just pursuing their happiness? What if the value of that happiness is more

What if the iPhones make them happy, and your Nokia 520 would not? What if they're just pursuing their happiness? What if the value of that happiness is more than the value they could have saved with a budget junker phone? What if their lives are not very happy, but this one thing makes them happy? Is it worth it then? I would argue yes. This reminds me of that infamous Fox News talking point: "Look at these people, living in poverty, and yet they still have microwaves in their kitchen! Maybe if they weren't living beyond their means, they wouldn't be in the slums!"

beatgammit 8y ago
That's a lot of what ifs. I bet that they'd be happier with a crappier phone when they lose their job and have enough savings to ride out looking for a new one. In fact, they'd probably find a better paying job if they didn't have to take the first one they could land. The problem with poverty is that many think "that's how life is" and don't realize that they can get out of the cycle. If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food and a fancy phone bill. In fact, the average cell phone bill for an individual is ~$70, or around $1k per year, and nearly half spend over $100[1]. Having a month's pay in cash means you have that much longer to find a new job, and can withstand emergencies like a broken car that often result in taking on payday loans or the like. Yes, they probably think that their fancy phone makes them happy, but I think it's quite the opposite because it's increasing the frequency of financial stressors. The happiest people aren't the ones with the most stuff, but the ones with the most financial stability. - [1] http://business.time.com/2012/10/18/47-a-month-why-youre-probably-paying-double-the-average-cell-phone-bill/ http://business.time.com/2012/10/18/47-a-month-why-youre-pro...
- scarface74 8y ago
  If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food McDouble is 'cheapest and most nutritious food in human history' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-i...
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    It’s not. You can get 2400 calories of milk for $2.29 at the Kroger in my neighborhood.
- felix_nagaand 8y ago
  That $1000 in a year is literally $1000 or so lost opportunities. That's ~1500 calories/ day for the year buying gas station pizza. It's hard to work when you're hungry. That's electricity or heat and water for most of a year. That's a beater to get through a winter. That's a couple visits to urgent care. That's cell phone and internet payments for a year. That's half a deposit on an average apartment. That's winter tires and months of gas. How can someone who is unable to think rationally (because they're poor and are at the mercy of capitalists) to keep them homelessness? The reality is terrifying and anyone who can muddle through it without resorting to crime, drug addiction, or being institutionalized is a person of immense strength of mind and character. Arguably stronger and more resourceful people than the multi generational families of inheritance. What good could $1000 really do for someone? $1000 to me is insignificant and yet more than half a month's rent. In order to escape this poverty trap I'd need a lot more money, money I'll never have. Even if I saved as aggressively as possible making sacrifices like eating only the cheapest foods available, buying only second hand clothing, cutting my own hair, biking an hour instead of the 10 minute drive to work, I'd only be able to save $400/mo. An extra $5k/yr at a loss of over half my free time and nearly every empty pleasure in life affords me the ability to what? Spend 8 years getting an outdated associates degree at a community college? I have several friends who did that, currently making more than them with only a HS diploma, yet still dead broke, paycheck to paycheck. Oooh. Maybe 16 years for a bachelor's degree. I'm sure I'll be a desirable applicant in my forties or fifties with entry level skills. The point is, poor people can't save their way out of poverty like they can't work their way to ceo unless they're actively groomed for better positions. The vast majority of companies are actively removing progression tracked positions and automating the higher skilled positions to further rely on low wage low skill workers that get stuck there. This is a travesty and left unchecked will further the social collapse of this country. You really should get out of your social bubble and interact with middle aged people working minimum wage jobs. You'll find a lot of unlucky but otherwise hard working, honest, reliable, and compassionate people, as well the occasional jerk. Try to get to know the jerk and find out why they're abrasive. Chances are they've had a hard life and their efforts failed to pay off in meaningful ways. Sure some might be truly awful despite having been given every advantage, but those are few and far between.

beatgammit 8y ago

That's a lot of what ifs. I bet that they'd be happier with a crappier phone when they lose their job and have enough savings to ride out looking for a new one. In fact, they'd probably find a better paying job if they didn't have to take the first one they could land. The problem with poverty is that many think "that's how life is" and don't realize that they can get out of the cycle. If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food and a fancy phone bill. In fact, the average cell phone bill for an individual is ~$70, or around $1k per year, and nearly half spend over $100[1]. Having a month's pay in cash means you have that much longer to find a new job, and can withstand emergencies like a broken car that often result in taking on payday loans or the like. Yes, they probably think that their fancy phone makes them happy, but I think it's quite the opposite because it's increasing the frequency of financial stressors. The happiest people aren't the ones with the most stuff, but the ones with the most financial stability. - [1] http://business.time.com/2012/10/18/47-a-month-why-youre-probably-paying-double-the-average-cell-phone-bill/ http://business.time.com/2012/10/18/47-a-month-why-youre-pro...

scarface74 8y ago
If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food McDouble is 'cheapest and most nutritious food in human history' https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-i...
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  It’s not. You can get 2400 calories of milk for $2.29 at the Kroger in my neighborhood.
felix_nagaand 8y ago
That $1000 in a year is literally $1000 or so lost opportunities. That's ~1500 calories/ day for the year buying gas station pizza. It's hard to work when you're hungry. That's electricity or heat and water for most of a year. That's a beater to get through a winter. That's a couple visits to urgent care. That's cell phone and internet payments for a year. That's half a deposit on an average apartment. That's winter tires and months of gas. How can someone who is unable to think rationally (because they're poor and are at the mercy of capitalists) to keep them homelessness? The reality is terrifying and anyone who can muddle through it without resorting to crime, drug addiction, or being institutionalized is a person of immense strength of mind and character. Arguably stronger and more resourceful people than the multi generational families of inheritance. What good could $1000 really do for someone? $1000 to me is insignificant and yet more than half a month's rent. In order to escape this poverty trap I'd need a lot more money, money I'll never have. Even if I saved as aggressively as possible making sacrifices like eating only the cheapest foods available, buying only second hand clothing, cutting my own hair, biking an hour instead of the 10 minute drive to work, I'd only be able to save $400/mo. An extra $5k/yr at a loss of over half my free time and nearly every empty pleasure in life affords me the ability to what? Spend 8 years getting an outdated associates degree at a community college? I have several friends who did that, currently making more than them with only a HS diploma, yet still dead broke, paycheck to paycheck. Oooh. Maybe 16 years for a bachelor's degree. I'm sure I'll be a desirable applicant in my forties or fifties with entry level skills. The point is, poor people can't save their way out of poverty like they can't work their way to ceo unless they're actively groomed for better positions. The vast majority of companies are actively removing progression tracked positions and automating the higher skilled positions to further rely on low wage low skill workers that get stuck there. This is a travesty and left unchecked will further the social collapse of this country. You really should get out of your social bubble and interact with middle aged people working minimum wage jobs. You'll find a lot of unlucky but otherwise hard working, honest, reliable, and compassionate people, as well the occasional jerk. Try to get to know the jerk and find out why they're abrasive. Chances are they've had a hard life and their efforts failed to pay off in meaningful ways. Sure some might be truly awful despite having been given every advantage, but those are few and far between.