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I know--everyone tells me this, but at this point I kind of like taking a stand against a system/culture that I consider unfair and designed to benefit banks an

I know--everyone tells me this, but at this point I kind of like taking a stand against a system/culture that I consider unfair and designed to benefit banks and cc companies. While it's been inconvenient at times, I'm always able to manage. Also, as a founder, I like to minimize the things I need to keep track of, and I prefer the simple financial discipline of only spending money I have in the bank. I do use a corporate credit card (Brex), but it's one that is specifically designed to be hands-off so that in practice it works more like a debit card. Sidenote/plug: Brex is an awesome credit card for startups, and they have a far more enlightened approach to credit history than other cards, being started by two immigrant founders who couldn't get approved for anything despite having plenty of investment money in the bank. I was able to sign up and have a functioning card with decent limits in ~5 minutes. Pretty amazing. I have no connection to them btw (is that why I'm getting downvoted?), just a happy user.

skksjsnaahs 8y ago
Are you aware you can also make ~$1k just for signing up for a new credit card and using it for a few months? As long as you live within your means and spend responsibly you can get some money back from the banks by playing their games and winning. Just put it on autopay so it pays the balance in full every month.
- danenania 8y ago
  Yeah, but for where I'm at currently it's not worth having another thing on my plate that I need to think about even a little bit, even for $1k. It also just rankles me that I should have to sign up for something I neither need nor want just to take part in a flawed and often predatory system. I should also note that I've had multiple friends who gave me this exact advice, then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. The reason these offers are made available is because cc companies know this will happen to a lot of people.
  - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
    I don’t blame you, we all have a lot of things to deal with. I wouldn’t worry about ending up in debt from it if you are a tech worker with a significant financial cushion. I wonder if there’s an opportunity here for a “free travel consultant” who will sign up for credit cards for you, take a cut, keep you up to date on the benefits you’ve accrued, and act as a travel agent, booking trips in a way that maximizes the value of the benefits. If done well, it might make life simpler instead of more complicated.
    - danenania 8y ago
      That's a cool idea--I would probably give it a try.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      You can't just keep signing up for credit cards and get benefits. They will decline you soon.
      - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
        True, but you can get thousands of dollars a year in benefits if you optimize it.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        Sure. The "free travel consultant" just wouldn't work.
        skksjsnaahs 8y ago
        Why not? If they take 25% of a few thousand per year, that’s hundreds of dollars of annual revenue per customer - great if they can do it mostly through software.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. " That really isn't necessary. I haven't paid a single cent in interest in 18 years. Get the credit card, buy a few things, pay it off and throw the card away. If you have a business you most likely have the discipline to not be stupid.
jyrkesh 8y ago
I have a similar opinion of the credit card companies as you. But in my opinion, the way to take a stand is to get the credit card, never give them a penny of interest or fees, take all the benefits from the card, and grow the share of people with credit card customers from whom the cc companies lose money.
- intralizee 8y ago
  That's supporting the system and even hypocritical for you if you disagree with the system existing.
- dottrap 8y ago
  They take a cut from every transaction you make. They make money even when you always pay off your balances. Your benefits were paid for by the transaction fees absorbed by merchants. So if you want to take a stand, use only cash.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Best is to have a credit card but never use it.
PebblesRox 8y ago
My husband can’t wait until his credit rating is 0 - due to not enough info because we haven’t had any debt for however many years :) I definitely get the no credit cards on principle thing! We’ll just deal with any additional hassle that comes about from not having a credit score. It won’t be the end of the world.
- dottrap 8y ago
  Dave Ramsey has encouraged millions of his followers to do the same ("indeterminable" score"). For the most part, it is not that much of a problem. Even home mortgages can done through manual underwriting. The biggest pain point seems to be car rentals as they seem to have constantly shifting and strange rules about whether and when they accept debit cards. The next seems to be car insurance discounts as insurers seem to have strangely connected your driving risk with your credit score.
  - danenania 8y ago
    Yep, car rentals are a pain point for sure. There are companies/franchises that will accept debit cards with a deposit, but it can be really hard to get a clear answer one way or the other apart from just showing up and trying. In my experience, it has been about 50/50. It's not very rational, since I'm perfectly happy to leave a deposit higher than some people's credit limits.
  - neuland 8y ago
    Could you share what kinds of banks will do manual underwriting? I am another person that refuses to get credit cards, but I did run into issues getting a mortgage. All the banks that I spoke with would concede in person that I am an extremely low risk, but they all intended to sell my mortgage on the secondary market (but still do the servicing themselves). So, they wouldn't / couldn't give a mortgage to someone who doesn't fit the "normal" boxes. Finding a bank that was willing to not sell the mortgage took a bit.
    - dottrap 8y ago
      Dave Ramsey recommends Churchill Mortgage.

skksjsnaahs 8y ago

Are you aware you can also make ~$1k just for signing up for a new credit card and using it for a few months? As long as you live within your means and spend responsibly you can get some money back from the banks by playing their games and winning. Just put it on autopay so it pays the balance in full every month.

danenania 8y ago
Yeah, but for where I'm at currently it's not worth having another thing on my plate that I need to think about even a little bit, even for $1k. It also just rankles me that I should have to sign up for something I neither need nor want just to take part in a flawed and often predatory system. I should also note that I've had multiple friends who gave me this exact advice, then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. The reason these offers are made available is because cc companies know this will happen to a lot of people.
- skksjsnaahs 8y ago
  I don’t blame you, we all have a lot of things to deal with. I wouldn’t worry about ending up in debt from it if you are a tech worker with a significant financial cushion. I wonder if there’s an opportunity here for a “free travel consultant” who will sign up for credit cards for you, take a cut, keep you up to date on the benefits you’ve accrued, and act as a travel agent, booking trips in a way that maximizes the value of the benefits. If done well, it might make life simpler instead of more complicated.
  - danenania 8y ago
    That's a cool idea--I would probably give it a try.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    You can't just keep signing up for credit cards and get benefits. They will decline you soon.
    - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
      True, but you can get thousands of dollars a year in benefits if you optimize it.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        Sure. The "free travel consultant" just wouldn't work.
        skksjsnaahs 8y ago
        Why not? If they take 25% of a few thousand per year, that’s hundreds of dollars of annual revenue per customer - great if they can do it mostly through software.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. " That really isn't necessary. I haven't paid a single cent in interest in 18 years. Get the credit card, buy a few things, pay it off and throw the card away. If you have a business you most likely have the discipline to not be stupid.

jyrkesh 8y ago

I have a similar opinion of the credit card companies as you. But in my opinion, the way to take a stand is to get the credit card, never give them a penny of interest or fees, take all the benefits from the card, and grow the share of people with credit card customers from whom the cc companies lose money.

intralizee 8y ago
That's supporting the system and even hypocritical for you if you disagree with the system existing.
dottrap 8y ago
They take a cut from every transaction you make. They make money even when you always pay off your balances. Your benefits were paid for by the transaction fees absorbed by merchants. So if you want to take a stand, use only cash.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Best is to have a credit card but never use it.

PebblesRox 8y ago

My husband can’t wait until his credit rating is 0 - due to not enough info because we haven’t had any debt for however many years :) I definitely get the no credit cards on principle thing! We’ll just deal with any additional hassle that comes about from not having a credit score. It won’t be the end of the world.

dottrap 8y ago
Dave Ramsey has encouraged millions of his followers to do the same ("indeterminable" score"). For the most part, it is not that much of a problem. Even home mortgages can done through manual underwriting. The biggest pain point seems to be car rentals as they seem to have constantly shifting and strange rules about whether and when they accept debit cards. The next seems to be car insurance discounts as insurers seem to have strangely connected your driving risk with your credit score.
- danenania 8y ago
  Yep, car rentals are a pain point for sure. There are companies/franchises that will accept debit cards with a deposit, but it can be really hard to get a clear answer one way or the other apart from just showing up and trying. In my experience, it has been about 50/50. It's not very rational, since I'm perfectly happy to leave a deposit higher than some people's credit limits.
- neuland 8y ago
  Could you share what kinds of banks will do manual underwriting? I am another person that refuses to get credit cards, but I did run into issues getting a mortgage. All the banks that I spoke with would concede in person that I am an extremely low risk, but they all intended to sell my mortgage on the secondary market (but still do the servicing themselves). So, they wouldn't / couldn't give a mortgage to someone who doesn't fit the "normal" boxes. Finding a bank that was willing to not sell the mortgage took a bit.
  - dottrap 8y ago
    Dave Ramsey recommends Churchill Mortgage.