6 ms·

If India is doing hardware as good as it is doing software, God have a mercy on our poor souls.

NicoJuicy 8y ago
That, can somehow relate. But hardware is easier than software ( drop company, find workers, rinse and repeat). Software is unique every project, it's hard to outsource quality. The best ones aren't looking for work, because they have plenty
- mrtksn 8y ago
  The funny thing is, I see more and more high quality and innovative software from the Chinese. A very popular JS framework, Vue.JS, is Chinese made. These things used to be US made. Also, Facebook is said to target TikTok by releasing apps and features to compete with them. It used to be the other way around. The word is that Chinese are on the cutting edge of AI research too. Nore and more it feels like the state of the art of Software is no longer tied to the Silicon Valley. Interesting times.
  - striking 8y ago
    Facebook hasn't been innovative for a long time, though. Not since they copied Snapchat stories on Instagram.
  - marcell 8y ago
    Is Vue.JS actually "Chinese made"? I checked out their team section and it seems very international, I couldn't see how you'd claim the team is based in any particular country.
    - NicoJuicy 8y ago
      I had my doubts about that too, thanks for checking.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - mrtksn 8y ago
      How do you define what make of the software is? If Zuckerberg writes a loop when on a trip to France, can we say that Facebook is now partly France made?
      - marcell 8y ago
        Yea, it’s a bit ambiguous, especially in Sillicon Valley where the whole place is built on immigrants. At the places I’ve worked easily over two thirds of my teammates were immigrants born in other countries. I do see that apparently the creator of Vue.JS was born in China, and then worked at Google in America. Beyond that I’m not clear on the details.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    The war on messaging is partially won for now. TikTok's audience is too young and SnapChat wasn't really competition for Facebook ( WhatsApp was) I do recognise I was surprised to see TikTok by my neece. It's not a threat yet ( the audience is too young), but they are upping their skills considerately lately
  - novaRom 8y ago
    >> the art of Software is no longer tied to the Silicon Valley It never been. Just look for example how many software were/is created in Europe, especially open source.
- srcmap 8y ago
  Slightly different Point of view: HW needs infrastructure. It needs Packages, materials, PCB houses etc ideally all near by, with good transportation networks, etc. That was what ShenZhen was good at. It took very low cost labors and supported government and a lot time to build up. Take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA on how to build IPhone from parts bought in ShenZhen public market to see the supported systems needed for HW. You can imagine how much easier and faster to prototype/build HW (drone, robots, etc) in ShenZhen as compare to anywhere else in the world (for now). As the labor cost goes up in ShenZhen / China, the significant advantages are gone. That's why China is trying to move up via Tech/IP, etc. Same development processes happened in Japan, Korea, Taiwan for the past 40-50 years. All of them start with unskilled Textile -> toy assembly -> Electonic PCB assembly -> PCB Design -> Simple Asic / Systems-> Complex ASIC / Complex Systems. As they move up the food chain, they all "clone / steal / borrow / learn" ip from more developed nations. It is also repeating the process 150 years ago where UK invented the Train/Rail system and US just scaled/improved to much bigger system. History just keep repeating.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    Self employed = easier to start software company, yes. But in the context of outsourcing, dropping a company ( which I summarized infrastructure with: "drop company"), hardware is a lot easier. You do have a lot to do initially, but big companies have their "procedure". Follow the procedure and everything could be almost right initially. Software projects can't expand like that "by the book". Every extra ( new) employee on a project could even move the finish of it 6 months further.
RamanathanR 8y ago
Ah! There always has to be one moron in every serious conversation!
- pellucide 8y ago
  Ahi There is always someone with no sense of humor.
  - RamanathanR 8y ago
    That was no humour; but latent racism disguised as humour. This meme has become so pervasive and toxic that it is time we all work together to nip it in the bud.
    - hyperdunc 8y ago
      It's not racist if it's somewhat true. But seriously, I don't see why chips need to be built in a foreign country. What's wrong with building them in the US?
      - nafey 8y ago
        Compare the work of Indian engineers who are paid equal to their SV counterparts. If you hire an engineer for $2/hour you get what you paid for.

That, can somehow relate. But hardware is easier than software ( drop company, find workers, rinse and repeat). Software is unique every project, it's hard to outsource quality. The best ones aren't looking for work, because they have plenty

mrtksn 8y ago
The funny thing is, I see more and more high quality and innovative software from the Chinese. A very popular JS framework, Vue.JS, is Chinese made. These things used to be US made. Also, Facebook is said to target TikTok by releasing apps and features to compete with them. It used to be the other way around. The word is that Chinese are on the cutting edge of AI research too. Nore and more it feels like the state of the art of Software is no longer tied to the Silicon Valley. Interesting times.
- striking 8y ago
  Facebook hasn't been innovative for a long time, though. Not since they copied Snapchat stories on Instagram.
- marcell 8y ago
  Is Vue.JS actually "Chinese made"? I checked out their team section and it seems very international, I couldn't see how you'd claim the team is based in any particular country.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    I had my doubts about that too, thanks for checking.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - mrtksn 8y ago
    How do you define what make of the software is? If Zuckerberg writes a loop when on a trip to France, can we say that Facebook is now partly France made?
    - marcell 8y ago
      Yea, it’s a bit ambiguous, especially in Sillicon Valley where the whole place is built on immigrants. At the places I’ve worked easily over two thirds of my teammates were immigrants born in other countries. I do see that apparently the creator of Vue.JS was born in China, and then worked at Google in America. Beyond that I’m not clear on the details.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  The war on messaging is partially won for now. TikTok's audience is too young and SnapChat wasn't really competition for Facebook ( WhatsApp was) I do recognise I was surprised to see TikTok by my neece. It's not a threat yet ( the audience is too young), but they are upping their skills considerately lately
- novaRom 8y ago
  >> the art of Software is no longer tied to the Silicon Valley It never been. Just look for example how many software were/is created in Europe, especially open source.
srcmap 8y ago
Slightly different Point of view: HW needs infrastructure. It needs Packages, materials, PCB houses etc ideally all near by, with good transportation networks, etc. That was what ShenZhen was good at. It took very low cost labors and supported government and a lot time to build up. Take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA on how to build IPhone from parts bought in ShenZhen public market to see the supported systems needed for HW. You can imagine how much easier and faster to prototype/build HW (drone, robots, etc) in ShenZhen as compare to anywhere else in the world (for now). As the labor cost goes up in ShenZhen / China, the significant advantages are gone. That's why China is trying to move up via Tech/IP, etc. Same development processes happened in Japan, Korea, Taiwan for the past 40-50 years. All of them start with unskilled Textile -> toy assembly -> Electonic PCB assembly -> PCB Design -> Simple Asic / Systems-> Complex ASIC / Complex Systems. As they move up the food chain, they all "clone / steal / borrow / learn" ip from more developed nations. It is also repeating the process 150 years ago where UK invented the Train/Rail system and US just scaled/improved to much bigger system. History just keep repeating.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  Self employed = easier to start software company, yes. But in the context of outsourcing, dropping a company ( which I summarized infrastructure with: "drop company"), hardware is a lot easier. You do have a lot to do initially, but big companies have their "procedure". Follow the procedure and everything could be almost right initially. Software projects can't expand like that "by the book". Every extra ( new) employee on a project could even move the finish of it 6 months further.

RamanathanR 8y ago

Ah! There always has to be one moron in every serious conversation!

pellucide 8y ago
Ahi There is always someone with no sense of humor.
- RamanathanR 8y ago
  That was no humour; but latent racism disguised as humour. This meme has become so pervasive and toxic that it is time we all work together to nip it in the bud.
  - hyperdunc 8y ago
    It's not racist if it's somewhat true. But seriously, I don't see why chips need to be built in a foreign country. What's wrong with building them in the US?
    - nafey 8y ago
      Compare the work of Indian engineers who are paid equal to their SV counterparts. If you hire an engineer for $2/hour you get what you paid for.