3 ms·

Well in the case of an nmda receptor antagonist, the harm can be pretty high. For example, alchohol is an nmda receptor antagonist and is considered to have one

Well in the case of an nmda receptor antagonist, the harm can be pretty high. For example, alchohol is an nmda receptor antagonist and is considered to have one of the highest social costs of any drugs.

pitaj 8y ago
How does it compare to the side-effects associated with the other anti-depressants, including extreme suicidal ideation? I'm not sure what you mean by "social cost".
- zeroxfe 8y ago
  social cost = effects on family, close friends and relatives, and occasionally society in general.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ninjakeyboard 8y ago
  The doses are acute so the side effects at reasonable doses are primary psychotomimetic effects without physical harm or other behavioral impact - it has a very short half-life and people will be basically sober by the time they leave from a treatment and the body will clear it in a day. The effects last beyond that because they cause a systemic brain change and psychological effect, not because there is a drug present.
knaik94 8y ago
Alcohol is an issue mainly due to how it interacts with Gaba receptors. Alcohol (and benzodiazepienes) binding with those receptors is what causes tolerance, physical addiction and withdrawal. Nmda receptors antagonists don't cause the same kind of issues. You generally can not physically get addicted to nmda antagonists like ketamine. In fact nmda antagonists and modulators are being studied because "research suggests that N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor neurotransmission contributes to mediating the behavioural effects of alcohol and other drugs of abuse" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11060803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11060803/ I want to make clear that I mean physical in the biological sense. It is still possible to form an addiction to these drugs. I only mean to say that it's rare to have dangerous withdrawal effects, unlike with alcohol.
- ninjakeyboard 8y ago
  That is true - alcohol is both nmda antagonist (the stumbly ataxia) and gaba agonist (effect on anxiety.) GHB IMO is not nearly as gnarly of a substance as alcohol because it sort of has a ceiling but withdrawal from any gabaergic is uncomfortable and potentially life threatening and nmda agonists are not, there are a lot of causes of bladder damage especially from ketamine, drowning, falling off buildings, loss of jobs, friends, family. Despite it's rather low physical harm profile (aside from the bladder damage) it's incredibly addictive and many people go wayyyyy wayyyyyyyy too far. I have lived it, and I've seen it. It has a very dark side. I know the IV user in this film (they call him Chris on camera). This user is atypical but there are many people with extensive bladder damage and negative social effects. You'll have to take my word for it. I'm sure there is more research from china especially as it's very common drug used there. Police note (anecdotally) the typical user in north america has changed to middle aged and affluent as the price of street ketamine has gone up from maybe $25/g to +$90 https://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/drugs_inc_ketamine https://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/drugs_inc_ketamine I believe in its power as an antidepressant. I'm just concerned about the effects a bit. It will fuel research - it seems it's not ketamine but metabolites and effects on ganglial growth that spur the sudden changes to a depressed mind. And a new objective view on life and reality.
  - atomical 8y ago
    > I know the IV user in this film (they call him Chris on camera). This user is atypical but there are many people with extensive bladder damage and negative social effects. You'll have to take my word for it. I'm sure there is more research from china especially as it's very common drug used there. That's not pharma grade ketamine. We have no idea what these drug users are taking.

pitaj 8y ago

How does it compare to the side-effects associated with the other anti-depressants, including extreme suicidal ideation? I'm not sure what you mean by "social cost".

zeroxfe 8y ago
social cost = effects on family, close friends and relatives, and occasionally society in general.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ninjakeyboard 8y ago
The doses are acute so the side effects at reasonable doses are primary psychotomimetic effects without physical harm or other behavioral impact - it has a very short half-life and people will be basically sober by the time they leave from a treatment and the body will clear it in a day. The effects last beyond that because they cause a systemic brain change and psychological effect, not because there is a drug present.

knaik94 8y ago

Alcohol is an issue mainly due to how it interacts with Gaba receptors. Alcohol (and benzodiazepienes) binding with those receptors is what causes tolerance, physical addiction and withdrawal. Nmda receptors antagonists don't cause the same kind of issues. You generally can not physically get addicted to nmda antagonists like ketamine. In fact nmda antagonists and modulators are being studied because "research suggests that N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor neurotransmission contributes to mediating the behavioural effects of alcohol and other drugs of abuse" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11060803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11060803/ I want to make clear that I mean physical in the biological sense. It is still possible to form an addiction to these drugs. I only mean to say that it's rare to have dangerous withdrawal effects, unlike with alcohol.

ninjakeyboard 8y ago
That is true - alcohol is both nmda antagonist (the stumbly ataxia) and gaba agonist (effect on anxiety.) GHB IMO is not nearly as gnarly of a substance as alcohol because it sort of has a ceiling but withdrawal from any gabaergic is uncomfortable and potentially life threatening and nmda agonists are not, there are a lot of causes of bladder damage especially from ketamine, drowning, falling off buildings, loss of jobs, friends, family. Despite it's rather low physical harm profile (aside from the bladder damage) it's incredibly addictive and many people go wayyyyy wayyyyyyyy too far. I have lived it, and I've seen it. It has a very dark side. I know the IV user in this film (they call him Chris on camera). This user is atypical but there are many people with extensive bladder damage and negative social effects. You'll have to take my word for it. I'm sure there is more research from china especially as it's very common drug used there. Police note (anecdotally) the typical user in north america has changed to middle aged and affluent as the price of street ketamine has gone up from maybe $25/g to +$90 https://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/drugs_inc_ketamine https://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/drugs_inc_ketamine I believe in its power as an antidepressant. I'm just concerned about the effects a bit. It will fuel research - it seems it's not ketamine but metabolites and effects on ganglial growth that spur the sudden changes to a depressed mind. And a new objective view on life and reality.
- atomical 8y ago
  > I know the IV user in this film (they call him Chris on camera). This user is atypical but there are many people with extensive bladder damage and negative social effects. You'll have to take my word for it. I'm sure there is more research from china especially as it's very common drug used there. That's not pharma grade ketamine. We have no idea what these drug users are taking.