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It's a fantasy. Enough gear isn't networked or has fallbacks. C2 on the other hand, I'm less sure of. The French were so disturbed that they hacked the compute

It's a fantasy. Enough gear isn't networked or has fallbacks. C2 on the other hand, I'm less sure of. The French were so disturbed that they hacked the computers used by very senior people in the American military that they told the Americans so they would secure it better. Far more likely is that both sides (other than Trump himself, maybe) know to default to standing down and absorbing the first blow then retaliate, if needed.

ethbro 8y ago
This. Non-embedded software folks are far too quick to assume everything is consumer-grade crap. Is there military crap? Sure. But part of the reason for double-price contracts is hardening and properly securing software. Folks don't just sit at the Naval War College twiddling their fingers.
- thinkling 8y ago
  Imagine conflict breaking out and China disrupting most of the US's consumer network infrastructure. (read: everyone's DSL/cable modem and some amount of data center equipment.) The chaos and mayhem would be enormous.
  - ethbro 8y ago
    Feasible. But let's not pretend it would stop nuclear ICBMs from launching. Which is, paradoxically, why massive numbers of traceable nuclear weapons + early warning actually make the world a safer place. (At least for major-power, global conflicts)
    - ghettoimp 8y ago
      I could easily be wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine that waging war is the Chinese objective here. Wars are costly, and destructive, and unpredictable. But tech espionage would fit nicely into a different, long-term game. There is (of course) a lot of work left to do spread the modern economy to the rest of their country. But if they can do that, they will have a huge population advantage and be the largest market in the world. Meanwhile they are already competitive (if not dominant) in manufacturing. So what's left? Tech. If they can become competitive with (or even leap-frog) the West technologically, they'll really be the de-facto leader of the world in every economic dimension.
jerf 8y ago
"It's a fantasy." Oh, absolutely, total collapse is a fantasy. How serious would the degradation be, now, that's an interesting question that probably literally nobody can answer. But it's an amusing fantasy, and just connected enough to reality to not be in same nonsense realm as an alien eliminating all weapons or something.

ethbro 8y ago

This. Non-embedded software folks are far too quick to assume everything is consumer-grade crap. Is there military crap? Sure. But part of the reason for double-price contracts is hardening and properly securing software. Folks don't just sit at the Naval War College twiddling their fingers.

thinkling 8y ago
Imagine conflict breaking out and China disrupting most of the US's consumer network infrastructure. (read: everyone's DSL/cable modem and some amount of data center equipment.) The chaos and mayhem would be enormous.
- ethbro 8y ago
  Feasible. But let's not pretend it would stop nuclear ICBMs from launching. Which is, paradoxically, why massive numbers of traceable nuclear weapons + early warning actually make the world a safer place. (At least for major-power, global conflicts)
  - ghettoimp 8y ago
    I could easily be wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine that waging war is the Chinese objective here. Wars are costly, and destructive, and unpredictable. But tech espionage would fit nicely into a different, long-term game. There is (of course) a lot of work left to do spread the modern economy to the rest of their country. But if they can do that, they will have a huge population advantage and be the largest market in the world. Meanwhile they are already competitive (if not dominant) in manufacturing. So what's left? Tech. If they can become competitive with (or even leap-frog) the West technologically, they'll really be the de-facto leader of the world in every economic dimension.

jerf 8y ago

"It's a fantasy." Oh, absolutely, total collapse is a fantasy. How serious would the degradation be, now, that's an interesting question that probably literally nobody can answer. But it's an amusing fantasy, and just connected enough to reality to not be in same nonsense realm as an alien eliminating all weapons or something.