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This is cool, but selfishly speaking, the area I'd really like to see Airbnb sink their teeth into is the apartment rental market. I've rented a few long-term (

This is cool, but selfishly speaking, the area I'd really like to see Airbnb sink their teeth into is the apartment rental market. I've rented a few long-term (~3 month) sublets on Airbnb, and the process was light years better than dealing with landlords. For example--I've avoided credit cards and loans in the past because I've been lucky enough to have sufficient savings and wanted to keep things simple. This means I have a sparse credit history. I've always had a steady income though, and have rented for many years without ever being so much as a single day late on a payment. Despite this, I get treated like I'm from outer space just because I haven't needed to put myself into debt. It's just such an utterly stupid evaluation criteria. I'm provably a great tenant, but can easily get passed over in favor of someone who has a much worse record, but keeps their credit score high. With Airbnb, I am judged by my actual relevant track record--a lessor can see that again and again I fulfill my obligations and make a good impression. And of course, there's more accountability on the other side too since tenants can leave reviews. There's just so much inefficiency they could clean up here.

maxxxxx 8y ago
I would recommend to get a few credit cards so you have a credit rating. Just don't use them for credit. Make a few purchases, pay them off and life is much easier.
- danenania 8y ago
  I know--everyone tells me this, but at this point I kind of like taking a stand against a system/culture that I consider unfair and designed to benefit banks and cc companies. While it's been inconvenient at times, I'm always able to manage. Also, as a founder, I like to minimize the things I need to keep track of, and I prefer the simple financial discipline of only spending money I have in the bank. I do use a corporate credit card (Brex), but it's one that is specifically designed to be hands-off so that in practice it works more like a debit card. Sidenote/plug: Brex is an awesome credit card for startups, and they have a far more enlightened approach to credit history than other cards, being started by two immigrant founders who couldn't get approved for anything despite having plenty of investment money in the bank. I was able to sign up and have a functioning card with decent limits in ~5 minutes. Pretty amazing. I have no connection to them btw (is that why I'm getting downvoted?), just a happy user.
  - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
    Are you aware you can also make ~$1k just for signing up for a new credit card and using it for a few months? As long as you live within your means and spend responsibly you can get some money back from the banks by playing their games and winning. Just put it on autopay so it pays the balance in full every month.
    - danenania 8y ago
      Yeah, but for where I'm at currently it's not worth having another thing on my plate that I need to think about even a little bit, even for $1k. It also just rankles me that I should have to sign up for something I neither need nor want just to take part in a flawed and often predatory system. I should also note that I've had multiple friends who gave me this exact advice, then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. The reason these offers are made available is because cc companies know this will happen to a lot of people.
      - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
        I don’t blame you, we all have a lot of things to deal with. I wouldn’t worry about ending up in debt from it if you are a tech worker with a significant financial cushion. I wonder if there’s an opportunity here for a “free travel consultant” who will sign up for credit cards for you, take a cut, keep you up to date on the benefits you’ve accrued, and act as a travel agent, booking trips in a way that maximizes the value of the benefits. If done well, it might make life simpler instead of more complicated.
        danenania 8y ago
        That's a cool idea--I would probably give it a try.
        maxxxxx 8y ago
        You can't just keep signing up for credit cards and get benefits. They will decline you soon.
codegoblins 8y ago
Society operates on credit and you're only hurting yourself by not engaging in the benefits of having a credit card. Use it like a debit card and you'll earn cash back and you will build your credit.
- orf 8y ago
  Eh, maybe in the US. I've never owned one and likely never will. Live within your means.
  - BillinghamJ 8y ago
    Putting exactly the same spend on a credit card rather than a debit one does not conflict with living within your means. Making use of credit facilities does not mean being in debt or doing anything wrong. It's the same in the UK - there's a world of benefit in showing that you're able to use credit products responsibly and there is no risk or any cost if you just treat a credit card like it's a debit card.
    - dazc 8y ago
      There is a risk that you can't pay the bill. Losing your job may still mean you can at least pay the minimum but it can sometimes be the start of a slippery slope. Anyone who says 'it can't happen to me' either has very rich parents or is a fool.
      - cheapsteak 8y ago
        Or they never carry a balance on their card Responsibly using CC isn't about "relying on future income to pay off present debt". If you have 5k in the bank, don't spend more than that, and pay it off at the end of the month (or if you're paranoid like I was right out of school, pay it off every week)
        BillinghamJ 8y ago
        Yeah originally I paid mine off every few days, means there's essentially zero risk
matchbok 8y ago
You are leaving money + benefits on the table by not using credit cards.
- kowdermeister 8y ago
  How so? If you are not disciplined, then you are gaining money by not using one. On the other hand, my debit card is accepted anywhere where a credit card is. (btw I'm in the EU, so I don't get the obsession with CC in the USA)
  - jfim 8y ago
    Unlike the EU, credit cards in the US have crazy perks. 2% cash back on all transactions for example mean that you're essentially getting a free discount on everything.
    - evandijk70 8y ago
      The difference is pretty crazy. In the Netherlands, where I live, you can't use a credit card in most supermarkets, due to the extra transaction costs. The one chain that does accept credit cards charges an extra 50 cent if you pay with credit card. Debit cards are the standard way of paying for stuff, and are accepted everywhere. For online shopping credit cards are used a bit more often, but payment through online banking is a lot more common. I guess in practice the system is a bit like credit cards, because it is relatively easy to have a negative balance on your checking account. There are no overdraft fees, you just pay interest on the negative balance. Credit is determined by a lack of a 'BKR registration', which keeps track of both existing loans and payments that you missed for previous loans. If you have no 'BKR registration', you can get approved for a mortgage, a loan or a credit card, provided you meet the income criteria.
  - Kuiper 8y ago
    There's not a lot of "discipline" that goes into paying off your credit card each month (in the sense of practice); my credit card auto-debits from my checking account at the end of the month to pay off the full balance for that billing period, so I passively pay for my purchases shortly after making them. The only way I lose money to interest is if I actively decide to log into my account and tell the system to stop paying my balance, which is something which would be bad on a variety of levels and doesn't appeal to me tremendously, so I guess it requires discipline for me to stay out of credit card debt in the same sense that it requires discipline for me to refrain from shoving a chunk of lard into my mouth. At a minimum, you could benefit from having a credit card that you just use to pay for a monthly subscription (e.g. Netflix, Github, Patreon) and just not use it for any other expenses; stuff it in a drawer and forget about it, or physically destroy the plastic if you don't want the temptation. (Heck, you could probably even request that your credit card have a $15 limit if you want to ensure it never gets used for anything other than your Netflix subscription.) >(btw I'm in the EU, so I don't get the obsession with CC in the USA) I wouldn't say that Americans are "obsessed" with credit cards any more than they're "obsessed" with shampoo. Which is to say, yes, there are some people who care a great deal about hair care products and have five different bottles in their shower, but for a lot of people it's just a basic fixture of living that you're kind of expected to deal with and isn't really in people's minds. Yes, I use it every day, but I'm not a credit card enthusiast any more than I'm a shower enthusiast.
dazc 8y ago
'With Airbnb, I am judged by my actual relevant track record..' Your credit record is based on your actual payment record. Your Airbnb reputation can be easily manipulated since you can have multiple accounts and play the review game.
- danenania 8y ago
  “Your credit record is based on your actual payment record.” Not mine. It has no record of any of my past rent payments, bill payments, etc. since I paid them all on time without using debt.
  - dazc 8y ago
    It is standard in the UK for regular bill payments to be recorded on a credit register regardless of how you paid those bills. Not sure if it's the same where you are? Technically, a bill is a form of debt. My point, really, was that airbnb reviews are not a reliable measure of anyone's credit worthiness or trust other than their ability to participate in a mutual bulls..t exercise.

maxxxxx 8y ago

I would recommend to get a few credit cards so you have a credit rating. Just don't use them for credit. Make a few purchases, pay them off and life is much easier.

danenania 8y ago
I know--everyone tells me this, but at this point I kind of like taking a stand against a system/culture that I consider unfair and designed to benefit banks and cc companies. While it's been inconvenient at times, I'm always able to manage. Also, as a founder, I like to minimize the things I need to keep track of, and I prefer the simple financial discipline of only spending money I have in the bank. I do use a corporate credit card (Brex), but it's one that is specifically designed to be hands-off so that in practice it works more like a debit card. Sidenote/plug: Brex is an awesome credit card for startups, and they have a far more enlightened approach to credit history than other cards, being started by two immigrant founders who couldn't get approved for anything despite having plenty of investment money in the bank. I was able to sign up and have a functioning card with decent limits in ~5 minutes. Pretty amazing. I have no connection to them btw (is that why I'm getting downvoted?), just a happy user.
- skksjsnaahs 8y ago
  Are you aware you can also make ~$1k just for signing up for a new credit card and using it for a few months? As long as you live within your means and spend responsibly you can get some money back from the banks by playing their games and winning. Just put it on autopay so it pays the balance in full every month.
  - danenania 8y ago
    Yeah, but for where I'm at currently it's not worth having another thing on my plate that I need to think about even a little bit, even for $1k. It also just rankles me that I should have to sign up for something I neither need nor want just to take part in a flawed and often predatory system. I should also note that I've had multiple friends who gave me this exact advice, then ended up with thousands of dollars of credit card debt a few years later because they got carried away. No thanks. The reason these offers are made available is because cc companies know this will happen to a lot of people.
    - skksjsnaahs 8y ago
      I don’t blame you, we all have a lot of things to deal with. I wouldn’t worry about ending up in debt from it if you are a tech worker with a significant financial cushion. I wonder if there’s an opportunity here for a “free travel consultant” who will sign up for credit cards for you, take a cut, keep you up to date on the benefits you’ve accrued, and act as a travel agent, booking trips in a way that maximizes the value of the benefits. If done well, it might make life simpler instead of more complicated.
      - danenania 8y ago
        That's a cool idea--I would probably give it a try.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        You can't just keep signing up for credit cards and get benefits. They will decline you soon.

codegoblins 8y ago

Society operates on credit and you're only hurting yourself by not engaging in the benefits of having a credit card. Use it like a debit card and you'll earn cash back and you will build your credit.

orf 8y ago
Eh, maybe in the US. I've never owned one and likely never will. Live within your means.
- BillinghamJ 8y ago
  Putting exactly the same spend on a credit card rather than a debit one does not conflict with living within your means. Making use of credit facilities does not mean being in debt or doing anything wrong. It's the same in the UK - there's a world of benefit in showing that you're able to use credit products responsibly and there is no risk or any cost if you just treat a credit card like it's a debit card.
  - dazc 8y ago
    There is a risk that you can't pay the bill. Losing your job may still mean you can at least pay the minimum but it can sometimes be the start of a slippery slope. Anyone who says 'it can't happen to me' either has very rich parents or is a fool.
    - cheapsteak 8y ago
      Or they never carry a balance on their card Responsibly using CC isn't about "relying on future income to pay off present debt". If you have 5k in the bank, don't spend more than that, and pay it off at the end of the month (or if you're paranoid like I was right out of school, pay it off every week)
      - BillinghamJ 8y ago
        Yeah originally I paid mine off every few days, means there's essentially zero risk

matchbok 8y ago

You are leaving money + benefits on the table by not using credit cards.

kowdermeister 8y ago
How so? If you are not disciplined, then you are gaining money by not using one. On the other hand, my debit card is accepted anywhere where a credit card is. (btw I'm in the EU, so I don't get the obsession with CC in the USA)
- jfim 8y ago
  Unlike the EU, credit cards in the US have crazy perks. 2% cash back on all transactions for example mean that you're essentially getting a free discount on everything.
  - evandijk70 8y ago
    The difference is pretty crazy. In the Netherlands, where I live, you can't use a credit card in most supermarkets, due to the extra transaction costs. The one chain that does accept credit cards charges an extra 50 cent if you pay with credit card. Debit cards are the standard way of paying for stuff, and are accepted everywhere. For online shopping credit cards are used a bit more often, but payment through online banking is a lot more common. I guess in practice the system is a bit like credit cards, because it is relatively easy to have a negative balance on your checking account. There are no overdraft fees, you just pay interest on the negative balance. Credit is determined by a lack of a 'BKR registration', which keeps track of both existing loans and payments that you missed for previous loans. If you have no 'BKR registration', you can get approved for a mortgage, a loan or a credit card, provided you meet the income criteria.
- Kuiper 8y ago
  There's not a lot of "discipline" that goes into paying off your credit card each month (in the sense of practice); my credit card auto-debits from my checking account at the end of the month to pay off the full balance for that billing period, so I passively pay for my purchases shortly after making them. The only way I lose money to interest is if I actively decide to log into my account and tell the system to stop paying my balance, which is something which would be bad on a variety of levels and doesn't appeal to me tremendously, so I guess it requires discipline for me to stay out of credit card debt in the same sense that it requires discipline for me to refrain from shoving a chunk of lard into my mouth. At a minimum, you could benefit from having a credit card that you just use to pay for a monthly subscription (e.g. Netflix, Github, Patreon) and just not use it for any other expenses; stuff it in a drawer and forget about it, or physically destroy the plastic if you don't want the temptation. (Heck, you could probably even request that your credit card have a $15 limit if you want to ensure it never gets used for anything other than your Netflix subscription.) >(btw I'm in the EU, so I don't get the obsession with CC in the USA) I wouldn't say that Americans are "obsessed" with credit cards any more than they're "obsessed" with shampoo. Which is to say, yes, there are some people who care a great deal about hair care products and have five different bottles in their shower, but for a lot of people it's just a basic fixture of living that you're kind of expected to deal with and isn't really in people's minds. Yes, I use it every day, but I'm not a credit card enthusiast any more than I'm a shower enthusiast.

dazc 8y ago

'With Airbnb, I am judged by my actual relevant track record..' Your credit record is based on your actual payment record. Your Airbnb reputation can be easily manipulated since you can have multiple accounts and play the review game.

danenania 8y ago
“Your credit record is based on your actual payment record.” Not mine. It has no record of any of my past rent payments, bill payments, etc. since I paid them all on time without using debt.
- dazc 8y ago
  It is standard in the UK for regular bill payments to be recorded on a credit register regardless of how you paid those bills. Not sure if it's the same where you are? Technically, a bill is a form of debt. My point, really, was that airbnb reviews are not a reliable measure of anyone's credit worthiness or trust other than their ability to participate in a mutual bulls..t exercise.