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> I am in no way poor, but if I lost my job and couldn't pay my bills, I'd be in trouble very quickly Sounds like if you lost your job you could pay the bills.
by RangerScience 8y ago
> I am in no way poor, but if I lost my job and couldn't pay my bills, I'd be in trouble very quickly
Sounds like if you lost your job you could pay the bills. You're running into the difference between what is - for you - a hypothetical and what is for others a reality.
> That's no one's fault but my own
Bu-bu-bu-bullshit! This is completely discounting the role the entire rest of civilization has in producing the context within which you make your choices.
Here's an example: I met a homeless old couple at an encampment once, and they were there because they'd chosen to move out of the Section 8 housing they were in because the building was becoming a drug den. They chose to be homeless but I do not think it is reasonable to say it's "their fault".
I think what you're actually saying is "I don't want any responsibility for other people" which is fine, but realize a) there's a difference between that and someone's situation being their fault, c) a moral judgement by you is inappropriate, and b) "If Everybody Did" then we wouldn't have civilization. Some people need to, do, and should take responsibility for others, and you should disparage neither the needy nor the charitable on those grounds alone.
(Note: If everybody takes all responsibility for everyone else, you get tyranny instead. Balance and diversity!)
- AlexB138 8y ago> "Bu-bu-bu-bullshit! " Is this really necessary, or the best way to make your point? It really takes away from an otherwise decent post.
- M0T0K0 8y agoI sympathize with RangerScience on this one; the schism between successful individuals who refuse to acknowledge society's role in aiding their success (subsidies, infrastructure, taxes, etc.), versus the less successful who continually get steamrolled over for the former's further advantage. Its obviously more complex than that, but I've met a few who don't help much in the former's depiction.
- sachdevap 8y agoI think the parent is pointing out that the wording on their parent comment is not helping change anyone's mind.
- AlexB138 8y agoSorry, I was unclear. I didn't post that to disagree with their point (though like you I think it's overly simplistic), I was disagreeing with the childish tone. That's not a way to have a productive conversation, or to be a good member of our community.
- RangerScience 8y agoI mean... Reasonable. "Bullshit" has a particular meaning to me (ala Dykstra's comment on abstraction) that I felt was appropriate; adding syllables is then a particular modifier on that concept (same same but more so, basically) given phonetics and cultural usage. "Fuckin' bullshit" carries more anger, "that's a load of bull" doesn't convey enough dismissal. "Bu-bu-bu-" conveys not only a more-than-usual amount of bullshit, but enough and of the right flavor that it's starting to be humorous in a pyrrhic kind of way. I'm not actually figuring out a non-loaded term to use instead; the next best that I'm finding are the phrases "head so far up your own ass" and "check your privilege", both of which have their own issues. AFAIK, when people are willfully ignorant of the plight of others, you call bullshit on their crap. Like replying to ad hominem attacks with fallacy ref memes. Anything else is engaging with the trolls. I'll take suggestions, tho. Otherwise, thanks!