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>Far better to let parents decide, so when they get it wrong we can learn from it, and don't all get it wrong at once. The problem is the disease is growing in

>Far better to let parents decide, so when they get it wrong we can learn from it, and don't all get it wrong at once. The problem is the disease is growing in epidemic proportions, no one is learning from mistakes. The government got it wrong sure, but let the doctors prescribe the diet and government won’t dictate the diet only mandate following doctor prescribed treatment/diet (and this too I know has flaws). But here is the thing, say a child does get diabeties and the doctor prescribed insulin, but the parents think they know better and refuse the treat their child. Should government be able to step in or allow the parent to withhold insulin treatment based on their freedom? Legally parents can refuse (life saving) treatment on religious grounds, and that arguement comes into play in diet, but I’ve also been involved in a case where a 13 year old was pregnant with HIV and was refusing court ordered treatments so the baby would be born without HIV, legally and morally they are complex issues.

village-idiot 8y ago
Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government: meat and saturated fat consumption is down, and we eat way more “heart healthy” whole grains and polyunsaturated seed (excuse me, “vegetable”) oils. Lots of people followed the advice, because lots of people wanted to be healthy. The advice was just garbage. I was under the impression that parents could not decline life saving treatments for minors, and that the state had the right to step in.
- will_brown 8y ago
  >Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government I agree with you the old food pyramid(s) were shit and even Obama’s revised food plates are shit advice. Still I don’t know of any statistics of people actually following it and think by and large most peoples diets in the US are even worse than what the government suggestions have been/are. As to the parental consent on treatment...Yes children die because parents decline life saving blood transfusions for their children on religious grounds. Most cases are upheld but from time to time there is intervention. In the case I referred to forced HIV treatments, the only reason that was legal for the unborn child, was because the 13 year old mother was already declared a dependent on the State. Again scary a state dependent subjected to force medical treatment for an unborn baby...but the alternative is scary too a 13 year old with hiv refusing treatment because she thought the HIV tests were “lies by the state” and having a dependent of the state give birth to another child with HIV which could have been prevented with treatment.
  - ConceptJunkie 8y ago
    And that's where the government constantly fails us. It makes enough mistakes that people start treating everything is says with skepticism, and often rightly so. But it's not a big step to doubting government recommendations for diet to doubting government recommendations for vaccinations, even though the two subjects are not equivalent at all. Things get even more complicated when the government does things like subsidize corn, which has a negative effect on the diet of Americans through the increased use of corn syrup in practically everything. People make fun of the anti-vaxxers, and they certainly are wrong, but we in this discussion are criticizing the government's diet recommendations as being misguided, it's not hard to see where people would view other government recommendations and mandates with suspicion.
- inapis 8y ago
  Honestly curious, where should a layman go to for nutrition advice if they can’t rely on their government?
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    That’s ... really hard. Honestly, I think self experimentation is the trick. Find someone who seems to be an expert, adopt one of their recommendations for a few weeks. Do you feel better? If yes, continue and pick a new recommendation. If no, reverse course and try something or someone else. I personally recommend experts who both cite science, and are willing to reverse course when proven wrong.
  - will_brown 8y ago
    You’re initial steps depend on your starting point/goals. Are you a body builder trying to go from 10-12% body fat to 7% for competition. Are you obese? Do you have chronic diseases or metabolic issues caused by diet? I personally focus on ATP/krebs cycle, cellular health, dietary inflammation, liver/kidney function...I experiment and consume information mostly from athletes. I myself am a ultra runner but only started running 5 years ago and wanting to be a better runner is what got my to begging taking nutrition seriously. I was 192 4 years ago, I’ve been down as low as 133. I experiment a lot but it’s hard because I feel you must commit months to a diet to really have insight on the effects on your body combined with lifestyle. That seems to be the same conclusion as the other reply to your comment, but whereas they say give is weeks/I’d say give it months.

village-idiot 8y ago

Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government: meat and saturated fat consumption is down, and we eat way more “heart healthy” whole grains and polyunsaturated seed (excuse me, “vegetable”) oils. Lots of people followed the advice, because lots of people wanted to be healthy. The advice was just garbage. I was under the impression that parents could not decline life saving treatments for minors, and that the state had the right to step in.

will_brown 8y ago
>Americans have by and large followed the recommendations of the government I agree with you the old food pyramid(s) were shit and even Obama’s revised food plates are shit advice. Still I don’t know of any statistics of people actually following it and think by and large most peoples diets in the US are even worse than what the government suggestions have been/are. As to the parental consent on treatment...Yes children die because parents decline life saving blood transfusions for their children on religious grounds. Most cases are upheld but from time to time there is intervention. In the case I referred to forced HIV treatments, the only reason that was legal for the unborn child, was because the 13 year old mother was already declared a dependent on the State. Again scary a state dependent subjected to force medical treatment for an unborn baby...but the alternative is scary too a 13 year old with hiv refusing treatment because she thought the HIV tests were “lies by the state” and having a dependent of the state give birth to another child with HIV which could have been prevented with treatment.
- ConceptJunkie 8y ago
  And that's where the government constantly fails us. It makes enough mistakes that people start treating everything is says with skepticism, and often rightly so. But it's not a big step to doubting government recommendations for diet to doubting government recommendations for vaccinations, even though the two subjects are not equivalent at all. Things get even more complicated when the government does things like subsidize corn, which has a negative effect on the diet of Americans through the increased use of corn syrup in practically everything. People make fun of the anti-vaxxers, and they certainly are wrong, but we in this discussion are criticizing the government's diet recommendations as being misguided, it's not hard to see where people would view other government recommendations and mandates with suspicion.
inapis 8y ago
Honestly curious, where should a layman go to for nutrition advice if they can’t rely on their government?
- village-idiot 8y ago
  That’s ... really hard. Honestly, I think self experimentation is the trick. Find someone who seems to be an expert, adopt one of their recommendations for a few weeks. Do you feel better? If yes, continue and pick a new recommendation. If no, reverse course and try something or someone else. I personally recommend experts who both cite science, and are willing to reverse course when proven wrong.
- will_brown 8y ago
  You’re initial steps depend on your starting point/goals. Are you a body builder trying to go from 10-12% body fat to 7% for competition. Are you obese? Do you have chronic diseases or metabolic issues caused by diet? I personally focus on ATP/krebs cycle, cellular health, dietary inflammation, liver/kidney function...I experiment and consume information mostly from athletes. I myself am a ultra runner but only started running 5 years ago and wanting to be a better runner is what got my to begging taking nutrition seriously. I was 192 4 years ago, I’ve been down as low as 133. I experiment a lot but it’s hard because I feel you must commit months to a diet to really have insight on the effects on your body combined with lifestyle. That seems to be the same conclusion as the other reply to your comment, but whereas they say give is weeks/I’d say give it months.