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> I have no agenda, I love China. > Yet again, the Chinese government congratulates itself in having solved terrorism without war, and credit where it’s due, i

> I have no agenda, I love China. > Yet again, the Chinese government congratulates itself in having solved terrorism without war, and credit where it’s due, it has. “The People’s War on Terror” and sending a million people to jail... > Xinjiang appears to have no criminality whatsoever, and the police in the streets are unarmed. Meanwhile France has soldiers, not police, patrolling the streets of Paris. This level of naivety is absurd. He seems to have an incredible ability to look without seeing. Or lacks the capability to think critically. Let’s summarise the entire article: - people go to xinjian as tourists - people are treated as tourists - people see xinjian as a tourist would, while being treated as a tourist. I was in Turkey shortly after the latest coup. I wasn’t stopped by ANY police. I wasn’t arrested even ONCE. There’s obviously no problems there for those in the political minority, because I had such a nice time....

throwaway565r 8y ago
That million number gets thrown around but from what I’ve read, it’s just a guess. For perspective, the US has about 2.3 million in “rehabilitation centers” so a million doesn’t seem outlandish I suppose.
- RileyJames 8y ago
  You’re right, it’s an estimate. Considering there are approx 10M Uighur people in Xinjiang, even a conservative 500k in detention is 1 in 20. He mentioned not seeing many young Uighur men on the streets. I wonder where they’re hanging out...
  - brorfred 8y ago
    While this estimate is eye opening it has to be compared to the ratio of black men in prison in the US, which is about 7%. One could argue that both high incarceration rates are results of policies to keep certain ethnic groups in control. (war on drugs as a continuation of Jim Crow laws in the US)
sthielen 8y ago
Agreed. For a less reductive perspective, I've found Emily Feng's reporting for the FT to be informative [0,1,2]. I'd be interested in other reading recommendations, if anyone has them. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4 https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce3... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b7...
PavlovsCat 8y ago
It's naivity at best. At worst it's this: > He watched on. Now that he had changed sides to the SS, he admired the strength of Fritz and the police man even more. He finally had left the camp of those who were wretched enough to let themselves be bludgeoned like that. He was glad to have made his choice. He did no longer have to fear the suspicion of the masters. He was on the side of good. The beatings the men received hardened his consciousness to embody good. One cannot receive beatings and be right, one cannot be dirty, eat garbage and be right. -- Robert Antelme, "The human race" And there is not a single spot in between these poles where a person could be found and remain in the intellectual, moral and social tradition of the best humanity has and is. The people who sided with the Nazis also didn't feel what they had done in that moment. Yet they had done it. It took Europe turning to rubble and death camps being discovered, but they had done it much, much earlier. Nobody who understand that can be moved by numbers. A human adult responds to human adults, and obedience and adulthood are incompatible. Speaking of seriously still excusing totalitarianism in the 21st century: China is the country which realized last that the Earth isn't flat, and they needed Jesuit missionaries of all people for that. So as a German, who doesn't even accept what the US is doing because it has no clue what it is doing, who is shitting bricks about what Germany is doing in so many respects -- I certainly am not entertaining any "they are different, they want that" notions about China when actual fucking concentration camps get built. When a person looks away, what they are okay or not okay with ceases to matter to me. It's not about what they know, it's about what I know. It's not about what they want, it's about what I MUST NOT partake in, excuse, rationalize, give an inch of room to, ever. Should I ever shrink one inch from this may God strike me dead. I will not shit on the victims of the Holocaust to humour some fucking contemporaries. I will not shit on the people who get murdered today, either. How dare anyone to even think suggesting otherwise, to anyone, much less people in the West with our history and our libraries. Unforgiveable. You can sign away your own human rights, not those of others.
Jugglerofworlds 8y ago
The Chinese government are even integrating Han Chinese "mothers" into Uighur families: https://www.apnews.com/9ca1c29fc9554c1697a8729bba4dd93b https://www.apnews.com/9ca1c29fc9554c1697a8729bba4dd93b What we're seeing is a complete cultural genocide by the Chinese government. The propaganda, cameras, and security noted in the article are just the tip of the iceberg. The US government should be hitting China hard with the Magnitsky Act for these human rights violations.

throwaway565r 8y ago

That million number gets thrown around but from what I’ve read, it’s just a guess. For perspective, the US has about 2.3 million in “rehabilitation centers” so a million doesn’t seem outlandish I suppose.

RileyJames 8y ago
You’re right, it’s an estimate. Considering there are approx 10M Uighur people in Xinjiang, even a conservative 500k in detention is 1 in 20. He mentioned not seeing many young Uighur men on the streets. I wonder where they’re hanging out...
- brorfred 8y ago
  While this estimate is eye opening it has to be compared to the ratio of black men in prison in the US, which is about 7%. One could argue that both high incarceration rates are results of policies to keep certain ethnic groups in control. (war on drugs as a continuation of Jim Crow laws in the US)

sthielen 8y ago

Agreed. For a less reductive perspective, I've found Emily Feng's reporting for the FT to be informative [0,1,2]. I'd be interested in other reading recommendations, if anyone has them. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0340 https://www.ft.com/content/ac0ffb2e-8b36-11e8-b18d-0181731a0... [1] https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce36e4 https://www.ft.com/content/721192f4-a1fa-11e8-85da-eeb7a9ce3... [2] https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d https://www.ft.com/content/f0d3223a-7f4d-11e8-bc55-50daf11b7...

PavlovsCat 8y ago

It's naivity at best. At worst it's this: > He watched on. Now that he had changed sides to the SS, he admired the strength of Fritz and the police man even more. He finally had left the camp of those who were wretched enough to let themselves be bludgeoned like that. He was glad to have made his choice. He did no longer have to fear the suspicion of the masters. He was on the side of good. The beatings the men received hardened his consciousness to embody good. One cannot receive beatings and be right, one cannot be dirty, eat garbage and be right. -- Robert Antelme, "The human race" And there is not a single spot in between these poles where a person could be found and remain in the intellectual, moral and social tradition of the best humanity has and is. The people who sided with the Nazis also didn't feel what they had done in that moment. Yet they had done it. It took Europe turning to rubble and death camps being discovered, but they had done it much, much earlier. Nobody who understand that can be moved by numbers. A human adult responds to human adults, and obedience and adulthood are incompatible. Speaking of seriously still excusing totalitarianism in the 21st century: China is the country which realized last that the Earth isn't flat, and they needed Jesuit missionaries of all people for that. So as a German, who doesn't even accept what the US is doing because it has no clue what it is doing, who is shitting bricks about what Germany is doing in so many respects -- I certainly am not entertaining any "they are different, they want that" notions about China when actual fucking concentration camps get built. When a person looks away, what they are okay or not okay with ceases to matter to me. It's not about what they know, it's about what I know. It's not about what they want, it's about what I MUST NOT partake in, excuse, rationalize, give an inch of room to, ever. Should I ever shrink one inch from this may God strike me dead. I will not shit on the victims of the Holocaust to humour some fucking contemporaries. I will not shit on the people who get murdered today, either. How dare anyone to even think suggesting otherwise, to anyone, much less people in the West with our history and our libraries. Unforgiveable. You can sign away your own human rights, not those of others.

Jugglerofworlds 8y ago

The Chinese government are even integrating Han Chinese "mothers" into Uighur families: https://www.apnews.com/9ca1c29fc9554c1697a8729bba4dd93b https://www.apnews.com/9ca1c29fc9554c1697a8729bba4dd93b What we're seeing is a complete cultural genocide by the Chinese government. The propaganda, cameras, and security noted in the article are just the tip of the iceberg. The US government should be hitting China hard with the Magnitsky Act for these human rights violations.