4 ms·

> The execution is harmful to users Do you have a source for that? Moz has a ton of data about how harmful to users it was to have an ecosystem full of trashy

> The execution is harmful to users Do you have a source for that? Moz has a ton of data about how harmful to users it was to have an ecosystem full of trashy spam extensions. The leap from "this solution has some downsides" to "this solution's downsides outweigh its upsides" is skipping the most important part of the question.

JadeNB 8y ago
> Moz has a ton of data about how harmful to users it was to have an ecosystem full of trashy spam extensions. I wish that this data were available somewhere—not this specific data, but in general. Mozilla's response to community push-back is always "trust us, the data show that this is what's best". If you trust them already, then that might be good enough; but, when this is always their first, and often their only, response to push-back, it's hard to distinguish it from the empty response of someone with no data who wants to avoid questions.
- oconnor663 8y ago
  That's fair, but I want to highlight the world of difference between "dubious behavior" and "it would be nice if we had your data to check your conclusions." I'm not with Mozilla, but when I've been in a similar position, it's deeply frustrating to read stuff like this on the internet. (So the healthy thing is really to just stop reading it, which is a shame.)
  - Endy 8y ago
    I consider the fact that they're hiding the data and using it as a smoke-screen to do whatever the corporate side would like to do at the time or an excuse to play with whatever side project the head dev en vogue was playing with, regardless of what the userbase wants and needs to be 'dubious' from the start. So the world of difference is a non-starter in my book. Frankly, there needs to be more community input, more opportunity to speak & act against wrongheadedness. It's part of why I prefer Pale Moon. If something is asinine, I can talk to the head dev and the team. They'll either show the community their sources for making a change or put it to a vote of the active users.

JadeNB 8y ago

> Moz has a ton of data about how harmful to users it was to have an ecosystem full of trashy spam extensions. I wish that this data were available somewhere—not this specific data, but in general. Mozilla's response to community push-back is always "trust us, the data show that this is what's best". If you trust them already, then that might be good enough; but, when this is always their first, and often their only, response to push-back, it's hard to distinguish it from the empty response of someone with no data who wants to avoid questions.

oconnor663 8y ago
That's fair, but I want to highlight the world of difference between "dubious behavior" and "it would be nice if we had your data to check your conclusions." I'm not with Mozilla, but when I've been in a similar position, it's deeply frustrating to read stuff like this on the internet. (So the healthy thing is really to just stop reading it, which is a shame.)
- Endy 8y ago
  I consider the fact that they're hiding the data and using it as a smoke-screen to do whatever the corporate side would like to do at the time or an excuse to play with whatever side project the head dev en vogue was playing with, regardless of what the userbase wants and needs to be 'dubious' from the start. So the world of difference is a non-starter in my book. Frankly, there needs to be more community input, more opportunity to speak & act against wrongheadedness. It's part of why I prefer Pale Moon. If something is asinine, I can talk to the head dev and the team. They'll either show the community their sources for making a change or put it to a vote of the active users.